Church And Politics

[Smith]

thx for responding so fast to my pm rat faced

[longboneslinger]

My vote: Keep'em seperate.
One question for the TheCanuck, by this quote

its all fine and good that bush is a hick that believes in god

are you emplying that believing in God makes one a hick or that W is a hick that happens to believe in God?

Just wond'rin

BONe

[Skweeky]

Originally posted by Rat Faced@24 June 2004 - 16:39

@ Skweeky:

"Ethics" and "Morals" are not universal.

What is Moral to you is Immoral elsewhere and the reverse is also True.

They depend upon a Culture (including Religious Influences) to give them meaning.

This fact alone, should keep Religion and Politics seperate.


Paul

I never claimed they were. I just said that they always go hand in hand with politics and that a certain amount of religion will be hard to keep out of politics on the whole.

I never said I agree with the fact religion and politics should mix, I am just pointing out that religion still is important to a lot of people and it will influence the way politics work. Besides, if the majority of the population in a country decides that religion should be a matter of government, is it fair then to deny them that right?

[J'Pol]

Religion and Politics are very muched mixed in the UK. We don't have to look elsewhere for that RF.

The Queen is the Head of the State. She is also Head of the Church of England.

Bishops from the Church of England sit in the House of Lords, as a right.

To the best of my knowledge no other religious group is represented in Government.

So, if you are in the UK you are governed to a certain extent by the Church of England.

[Smith]

Originally posted by longboneslinger@25 June 2004 - 01:46
My vote: Keep'em seperate.
One question for the TheCanuck, by this quote

its all fine and good that bush is a hick that believes in god

are you emplying that believing in God makes one a hick or that W is a hick that happens to believe in God?

Just wond'rin

BONe

no im just inplying that bush thinks because god dosnt like it, the states shouldnt like it, and that bush is a dickhead.

[Rat Faced]

Originally posted by J'Pol@25 June 2004 - 11:43
Religion and Politics are very muched mixed in the UK. We don't have to look elsewhere for that RF.

The Queen is the Head of the State. She is also Head of the Church of England.

Bishops from the Church of England sit in the House of Lords, as a right.

To the best of my knowledge no other religious group is represented in Government.

So, if you are in the UK you are governed to a certain extent by the Church of England.

I never said they werent mixed here kind sir....


I said they shouldnt mix...


I stand by what i said should be the state of affairs, and not what the facts on the ground are.

Indeed, you have pointed out one of the things i was trying to say:

Why the hell should the Church of England have a direct influence on the Laws passed through Parliament; when no other church, never mind Religion, has this?

Likewise, how can the Monarch pass a Law that goes against the Tennents of the Church of England...when she is head of that Church?

eg: Werent CofE against Sunday Opening?

How did she reconcile going against the Church Council as head of the Church to sign the Sunday Opening changes?

It makes a hypocracy of it all

[vidcc]

I saw this on CNN last night but couldn't find it on the website until now.

One bishop has suggested that anyone that votes for Kerry or any like minded politician should be denied communion unless they confess and show repentence.

DENVER, Colorado (Reuters) -- A Colorado Bishop, in one of strongest stands yet taken by a U.S. Roman Catholic church leader, says communion should be denied to people who vote for candidates supporting such issues as abortion rights, gay marriage, euthanasia and stem cell research.

In a pastoral letter to the 125,000 parishioners in Colorado Springs, Colorado, Bishop Michael Sheridan also warned that politicians opposed to church teachings on such issues and those who vote for them jeopardize their salvation.

"Any Catholic politicians who advocate for abortion, for illicit stem cell research or for any form of euthanasia ipso facto place themselves outside full communion with the church and so jeopardize their salvation," the bishop wrote in a letter published this week in the diocesan monthly newspaper, the Herald.

"Any Catholics who vote for candidates who stand for abortion, illicit stem cell research or euthanasia suffer the same fateful consequences," he added.

While some Catholic church leaders have suggested denying communion to Catholic politicians who support abortion rights, none except Sheridan are believed to have suggested that communion also be denied to the voters who support them.

The issue of whether Catholic candidates will support the church's position on abortion has come to a peak this year. President George Bush, a Protestant, opposes abortion while Democrat John Kerry, a Catholic, supports a woman's right to make that choice -- although he says he is personally opposed to abortion.

"This surely is beyond what any other bishop in the United States has said," Rev. Thomas Reese, editor of America Magazine, a national Catholic publication, said.

"Clearly there is disagreement among the U.S. bishops on this question" Reese said.

Bishops have control over issues in their own diocese, Bill Ryan a spokesman for the U.S. Catholic Conference of Bishops said. "The bishop is the one who decides in his diocese what is the proper posture to take."

"A lot of bishops have been speaking about this subject," Ryan said. He declined to comment on whether the Colorado bishop's statement was the strongest to date from a church official.

A spokeswoman for the Colorado Springs diocese said most of the callers to the chancery officer support the bishop.

The question of how voters and candidates should approach the issues of abortion rights and gay marriage is not uniform.

"We have some bishops like Archbishop (Raymond) Burke in St. Louis who has said that Catholic politicians who support abortion should not go to communion and if they do he would turn them away," Reese said.

However, other bishops think the best route is to try to persuade people to change their hearts on the issue.

"Archbishops (Sean Patrick) O'Malley and (Theodore) McCarrick have all said that while they are opposed to abortion and think that not only Catholic politicians but all politicians should be against abortion they would not turn someone away if they come up (for communion)," Reese said.

Reese said one of the problems of denying communion is that it puts the abortion issue in the context of religion rather than as a human rights issue.

"I think that this kind of thing is counter-productive for the pro-life movement. It's branding abortion as a Catholic issue ... rather than a human rights issue," he said.

source

[Smith]

thqats bullshit. its all fine to say abortions bad, but the tables turn when ur in those shoes. why should a man choose if women shoulld have right to something. if they were to vote, and thats a big if the pannel voting should be women only.

[Biggles]

How would they know who voted for whom?


I think it is the kind of tack that will sail the Church and State further apart - not closer.

[vidcc]

Originally posted by Biggles@30 June 2004 - 15:53
How would they know who voted for whom?

I think it was the bit where a supporter of such policies would suffer come judgement day. So confession would be the only option. It would be a test of ones religious views i guess.
Don't confess and take communion and you will pay in the afterlife