Well It's Democracy

[MicroScreen2]

sorry for drifting off topic


my main point was nowadays marriage is just a title. you dont even need to be commited anymore cos divorce is just a signature away

[J'Pol]

Originally posted by hobbes@5 August 2004 - 22:26
Americans have the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness as they see fit.

I believe that every human has these rights, whether they happen to be an American or not.

Indeed in Europe we have a convention which lays the rights out. ECHR

That aside, your post is full of goods points, well presented. You are to be congratulated on it.

[hobbes]

Unfortunately these days, the only time this forum shows any life at all is when a disagreement ensues.

[clocker]

I sometimes wonder if the folks most stidently against gay marriage aren't just a tad worried that perhaps gays might show themselves to be more adept at the institution than they.
After all, an openly gay person has already exposed themself to the slings and arrows of the bigotted, for a pair of them to aggressively seek a recognized union would seem to require a desire far in excess of that demanded of a "normal" couple.
For a tradition pair, a pulse and an birth certificate are all that is needed to enter into holy matrimony.
A gay couple must suffer the scorn and dismay of the masses to do the same thing.

As an aside...
Here in Colorado, home of Marilyn Musgrave, author of the constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage, we have the rather humorous affair of Gov. Bill Owens...a Republican, eagerly pandering to his conservative constituancy by trumpeting "family values" whilst divorcing his wife.

Only in America...

[MicroScreen2]

Originally posted by hobbes@5 August 2004 - 21:53
Unfortunately these days, the only time this forum shows any life at all is when a disagreement ensues.

no it isnt.


sorry this aint the lounge

How does marriage effect children at all, the support of the children comes from the love of the parents not from a legal document.

this is idealistic crap though

The argument that gay marriages should not be allowed because their children may get bullied a bit Big Brotherian if you ask me.

and this makes no sense to me

[hobbes]

sorry this aint the lounge

How does marriage effect children at all, the support of the children comes from the love of the parents not from a legal document.

this is idealistic crap though

It means that the "support" that comes from the parents is both financial and emotional.

A marriage license in no way ensures that the parents will be supportive of the children. It does not require this.

If the parents, love the children financial and emotional support will naturally flow from this. This support can continue after mom and dad no longer want to be together.

So you see, a legal document really plays no role in "supporting" the children.

If you want to bring up "child support", do you really think this responsibility ever was the hinge that kept a divorce from taking place?

Idealistic crap, I think not!

BTW, as an aside, if you are going to make a statement, please attempt to support it.

"That is idealistic crap because.....".

After all, this is NOT the lounge.


As for you second point, change "big brotherian" to "paternalistic", does it make sense now?

[hobbes]

Originally posted by clocker@5 August 2004 - 19:58


we have the rather humorous affair of Gov. Bill Owens...a Republican, eagerly pandering to his conservative constituancy by trumpeting "family values" whilst divorcing his wife.

Only in America...

Perhaps his wife had poor family values and he was necessarily distancing himself from her?

[clocker]

Hobbes, I'm sure you have just earned a position in his campaign staff.

[J'Pol]

Originally posted by clocker@5 August 2004 - 22:58
holy matrimony.

I beg to differ.

I have, as previously stated no problem whatsoever with gay couples making a lifelong commitment to one and other, to do this in front of a registrar and witnesses.

I fully support their right to equal legal status to any other couple and to have the same tax breaks, pension rights etc.

I have no problem with them describing themselves as being married and thinking of themselves as such.

However I do not consider their status to be that of holy matrimony.

[MicroScreen2]

marriage <s>is</s> was like an extra bond to keep parents together for the sake of the children, so yeah a legal document does help support.


i looked up paternalistic and now i understand the arguement. its stupid.

i think theres a time for people mind their own business and a time for people to intervene. society cant allow kids to be bullied for a few peoples&#39; selfish wishes. maybe in a few years, but not yet.