Michael Moore's Acceptance Speech

[Z]

j2, is zardoz postin tha same thing again? just flame him till he gets his act together.

[ketoprak]

Originally posted by DataMore@27 March 2003 - 04:22
I think Adrien Brody's acceptance speech was MUCH better than Michael Moore's.
He was subtle with his statements but also powerful at the same time.

It was only sentimental, emotional. Moore's speech was political, much more interesting.

(edit: bad quote)

[Skillian]

Exactly, everyone gave him a standing ovation because it wasn't controversial in the slightest. What he said was valid, but it's been said a thousand times before. Hollywood prefers nice and predictable to rubbing up the wrong way.

[j2k4]

Originally posted by lil_z@27 March 2003 - 07:01
j2, is zardoz postin tha same thing again? just flame him till he gets his act together. 

Yeah-he is.

But I have decided to ignore him; I have had enough overt fun with him.

From now on, if I DO respond specifically to him, he will end up sniffing the tendrils of "subtle smoke" and wondering if he farted while he wasn't paying attention.

[Marcus]

Originally posted by puremindmatters+25 March 2003 - 21:10--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (puremindmatters @ 25 March 2003 - 21:10)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--SuperJude™@25 March 2003 - 21:03
Now we have racist americans, the KKK and Jesus was not a jew all in one thread?

You are right - this is quite an achievement.
Maybe we all missed the twist - and learn that all people who didn&#39;t like Michael Moore&#39;s speech are KKK members who support the war because the hidden agenda behind it is to obscure that Jesus was black.
I rest my case in awe. [/b][/quote]
LOL............I havent laughed so muck in ages.
That sound like the only possible answer to me.
Unless of course the Black Jesus was a undercover American Iraqi sopporter.




Marcus...............

[j2k4]

Originally posted by Marcus+28 March 2003 - 14:56--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Marcus @ 28 March 2003 - 14:56)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by -puremindmatters@25 March 2003 - 21:10
<!--QuoteBegin--SuperJude™

@25 March 2003 - 21:03
Now we have racist americans, the KKK and Jesus was not a jew all in one thread?

You are right - this is quite an achievement.
Maybe we all missed the twist - and learn that all people who didn&#39;t like Michael Moore&#39;s speech are KKK members who support the war because the hidden agenda behind it is to obscure that Jesus was black.
I rest my case in awe.

LOL............I havent laughed so muck in ages.
That sound like the only possible answer to me.
Unless of course the Black Jesus was a undercover American Iraqi sopporter.




Marcus............... [/b][/quote]
:lol

Ya think?

[Marcus]

Originally posted by j2k4+28 March 2003 - 16:21--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (j2k4 @ 28 March 2003 - 16:21)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by -Marcus@28 March 2003 - 14:56

Originally posted by -puremindmatters@25 March 2003 - 21:10
<!--QuoteBegin--SuperJude™

@25 March 2003 - 21:03
Now we have racist americans, the KKK and Jesus was not a jew all in one thread?

You are right - this is quite an achievement.
Maybe we all missed the twist - and learn that all people who didn&#39;t like Michael Moore&#39;s speech are KKK members who support the war because the hidden agenda behind it is to obscure that Jesus was black.
I rest my case in awe.

LOL............I havent laughed so muck in ages.
That sound like the only possible answer to me.
Unless of course the Black Jesus was a undercover American Iraqi sopporter.




Marcus...............

:lol

Ya think? [/b][/quote]
Hope you don&#39;t take offence, But don&#39;t you think your eagle looks like a myopic owl close up?

[j2k4]

It&#39;s the shadowing, but you&#39;re on to something there. Maybe just a bit cross-eyed. Known on occasion to cause "friendly-fire".
In a more serious vein, I think the U.S. is afflicted with what might be termed "beneficient myopia".

[longterm]

I think my posting in the other site has merit here. I&#39;m interested to see this argued out, since I did not see Michael Moore&#39;s movies, nor his speech, but I did see the reactions. It is amusing to watch people fed a daily dose of media spout forth their "dinner table wisdom".
A couple points about the previous thread, so that loose ends may be tied up, or at least rerouted.
Of COURSE different cultures have different colored saviors&#33; How ludicrous would it be for me, painting a picture of my particular Lord&#39;s child, to paint it distinctly as a man from another culture? Duh&#33; Like the Swedes are going to have pictures of an Arabic Christ? As if Egyptians would portray their Christ as a 6 foot 2, eyes of blue?
Come on folks. A bit of common sense. Our blood is red the world entire. I would lay my life down for anyone in need, and I don&#39;t give a damn if you speak my language to thank me. It is not the thank you that is sacred. It is life itself which is sacred. Every single life. Every life that reads my words and says, "Dude, you are so full of it&#33;"
Fine. Let&#39;s talk.
Anyone refusing to talk, or rather, anyone unwilling to "listen" as it were, to varying viewpoints is trying to live the Jerry Springer way, which is basically:
If you say it loud enough, it must be true.
If you keep repeating it, it must be true.
If the people around you say it&#39;s true, it must be true.
With all this in mind, I&#39;m going to paste my first ever posting, (beyond a reply), to this site, earlier today.
Have fun&#33; (These are things thought and written independently from Mr. Moore&#39;s, based on data gathered, and trying to form a picture from the data...not having the picture and then looking for data to support it. I&#39;m just some poor bastard living below the poverty level, here, but so far, before the attacks actually started, I asked just about everyone I met about the situation. Most, and by most, I&#39;m comfortable saying about 95%, said, basically, "No, what the hell are our boys and girls doing over there to die for Mr. Bush&#39;s friggin&#39; oil, cause there&#39;s no WAY President Bush is over there for a humanitarian effort, and no we haven&#39;t heard a damned thing about him ready to attack us or anyone else."
So the anti-war people tended to be...most Americans.
Of course, now that there is footage of our guys dying on camera...forget it&#33; "Nuke &#39;em" is a growing sentiment now, with NO distinction AT ALL between Saddam and his countrymen. NONE. I hear people from different economic strata refer to the whole country as being filled with "sand-n***ers", which is loathsome to me. But we have bought the bushel, and now we will choke on it, thank you very much.
Did Mr. Moore&#39;s movie make mention of what the word Columbine actually means? If not, here goes.
Columbine means "like a dove, or as a dove", in the same way canine refers to dog.
So. The symbol of peace...tragic. Very sad. Very...very.
Anyway, here&#39;s my load of...well, you know.
######################################

My first posting here. I just have a few opinions, and would love feedback on them. I&#39;m willing to answer any and all queries, so someone out there prove me wrong without making me dead. (Insert a grin here, please.) I&#39;d love to be proven wrong, but I&#39;m biased. I want to live to enjoy MY life, and I want you to live and enjoy YOURS. It&#39;s that...damned...simple. With that in mind:
On with the show&#33;
TOP TEN QUESTIONS I&#39;D LIKE TO SEE PRESIDENT BUSH ANSWER LIVE:
(I will include here and there book titles and authors which illuminate or pose similar issues.)
10. If you "are" committed to the New World Order, will the rest of the world be brought "up" to the U.S. standard of living, or will the U.S. continue to edge toward being a 3rd world country, with ACTUAL ever growing inadequate:
Food, shelter, education, health care?
Try reading:
"Constitution: Fact or Fiction--The Story of the Nation&#39;s Descent from a Constitutional Republic through a Constitutional Dictatorship to an Unconstitutional Dictatorship", by Dr. Eugene Schroder-with Micki Nellis
9. Can you prove, without strongarm tactics, that Osama bin Laden was not acting in the interests of the "ruling class" of the U.S., seeing as how the CIA did "happen" to give him, (and consequently his men), in the name of fighting for freedom,
training and &#036;? (Which would, of course, trace the perpetrators of 9/11 attacks to a location distinctly different than that of Afghanistan...or Iraq.)
Try reading both, 1984, and Animal Farm, both by George Orwell.
8. Was Osama bin Laden "so" steeped in American psychology as to understand the ramifications of using...that...one...date, to attack? 9-11?
Emergency, anyone? Just call 911&#33; Oh, that also "happens" to be the day when our country&#39;s ENTIRE paradigm shifted so that a new, long-term program was neatly installed to implant mistrust and hate.
How easily done&#33; Communism gone? No need for wiretapping? No need for mail tampering? No need for incorrectly preparing our students for life? No need for CIA? Not on this watch&#33; Ever&#33;
Hmm. Try reading:
"Who Will Tell The People: The Betrayal of American Democracy" by William Greider.
7. Are there any differences between the slaves of the 1700s and 1800s and the average American citizen today? ("Yes, plenty&#33; Look at all the new cars, computer games, movies, airplanes, trains, telephones, medicines, operations, information, etc.")
Okay, I&#39;ll rephrase:
Slaves had, in general, inadequate housing, poor educational opportunities, little mobility, little privacy,
minimal food requirements, many losses of offspring, due to selling by owner, minimal recourses to injury or health, since replacing them was, oft times, considered cheaper.
Today, U.S. citizens "enjoy": Inadequate housing, some of which was brought about by meetings between bankers of other countries, (It was decided, outside the U.S., that low-income housing was to be classified as a "high-risk" proposition, thus ensuring that few, if any, American banks would underwrite such projects in the future.)
Incomplete and faulty education, which ensures a high number of "servers" to serve those born into "higher" (more wealthy) families, and also ensures fewer questions when told to put their necks on the line.
"Don&#39;t think. Just do it." Aahhh. Thank you Nike. What a cogent summation of America, (read as especially anyone under 40.)
Overdrugging of children, especially if, God forbid, they ask alot of questions, and don&#39;t seem able to concentrate for as long as, say, a 30 year-old. (My, your 8-year old acts "just" like a child&#33; "I know. I&#39;m so ashamed&#33;" Hmm.
This brings us...FINALLY...to the question&#33;
(remember the top 10 questions for the Prez?)
(rephrased #7):What, specifically, are YOU doing, to ensure that U.S. is not turned into another 3rd world country, since economists know that war footing is disastrous for freedom, and real prosperity.
Try reading:
"Power and Prosperity: Outgrowing Communist and Capitalist Dictatorships" by Mancur Olson
6. If it is true that only about 100 years of oil are theorized to remain on the planet, (and I understand it&#39;s merely a theory, and an estimate), what steps are being taken by the Oil Companies to ensure that they will remain viable entities beyond 100 years? In other words, are they branching out into technological areas which will keep them at the top of the power food chain, so that when the oil runs dry, they will still have humanity "over a barrel", so to speak?
Does it involve eliminating cash as a viable spending unit, and does it tie into the creation of the Euro-dollar?
5. Since nothing lasts forever, and the U.S. government is not exactly "God Itself", and the government knows this, what steps have the past administrations taken to ensure that future administrations would be well nigh invulnerable to an "actual" democracy, and what are your "think tanks" coming up with to discredit anyone with a brain and an interest in life and love?
(Remember, extremes cancel each other out. It&#39;s been pointed out that in Iraq, Saddam was "voted" in with 100% of the vote. 100%. We know that&#39;s a sham. Now, look at us, in the U.S.
By way of showing.... just.... how....democratic.... we.... are..... OUR country sits and waits, while OUR leader is voted in by a margin of a FEW THOUSAND. WOW&#33; IT MUST BE A FREE COUNTRY&#33; By the way, please ignore the fact that the discrepancy which gave our leader the chair....just....so ....happened....to be in the 1 out of 50
states of which his brother was Governer. Well&#33; Don&#39;t that beat all&#33; What an AMAZING coincidence.
(Go freedom&#33; Wo-hoo&#33)
4. Where does your look of smugness come from, when "your" people are being killed? You don&#39;t really seem to ponder anything, and when you do, you chuckle. You either listen with a "cat that got the canary, and a contract that delivers all future canaries to your mouth" grin, or talk with a smack the podium "We&#39;ve GOT to do it, it&#39;s just so damned reviling what the man does&#33; Wooo it makes me shiver with rage&#33;" style. And if it&#39;s true, what about what YOU said , and I&#39;m quoting here, Mr. President,
"I hate lies and deception." And then you repeated it&#33;
Does this mean that: You&#39;re ready to tell the American people about the truth behind the "War on this...and the War on that?" The truth about how:
Under the War Powers, given the American President, in a declared State of Emergency, which we&#39;ve been in since 1933, YOU, Mr. Bush, are delegated THESE powers, withOUT reference to normal constitutional process:
seize property, organize and control the means of production, seize commodities, assign military forces abroad, institute martial law, seize and control all transportation and communication, regulate the operation of private enterprise, restrict travel, and in a plethora of ways, control the lives of all American citizens.
Let&#39;s hear the truth, baby&#33; You "hate" lies and deception. Apologize to the people, and return control of their government to them, and stop having controlled crisis, which allow you to solidify your power and condemn all those who love freedom.
Try reading the Declaration of Independence. Mayhap the Constitution? How about: "Notes of Debates in the Federal Convention of 1787, " reported by James Madison, with an introduction by Adrienne Koch.
3. Are you aware of how many of Clinton&#39;s bodyguards, (and others around him) died while he was in office, and do you think it&#39;s strange, or do you just go by the, "If you want to make an omelet, you have to crack some eggs." (Actually, a more accurate prhasing might read: If you want to keep the money where it is, you have to kill some poor bastards.), credo of power?
2. Do you TRULY....and this is a doozy....&#39;cause it could be your soul we&#39;re talking about here (but you do have to sorta believe in God for it to carry any meaning)....do you TRULY think you&#39;re a man of God, regardless of what faith you check in the box? (Protestant, Catholic, etc) If so, which God? Where in YOUR bible does it say,
"Yes, you may lie and oppress your people when you have the chance, because they would do the same to you, and screw the future and all those who might vary in opinion, &#39;cause quite frankly, Mr. Bush...you are the Man&#33;" My bible doesn&#39;t say that.
Get the world good and mad at the U.S., so that if we&#39;re thrown out of the U.N. or if we decide to leave on our own, why, that&#39;s just a great reason to throw up a psychological wall around America and get us good and ready to die for just about any reason, would you just say please, Mr. President, I&#39;ll send my kids over to die, because it MUST be those people, we can&#39;t understand their language, so they MUST be wrong, why they don&#39;t even speak English, how COULD they be right, or not even RIGHT...why should they even live, when American people could use that land and oil really well for themselves, and please, will someone impregnate me so that I may send my child to die for lies? Please? Don&#39;t send your kids, Mr. President, or ANY kids from the "ruling class". (After all: "What good is it being a Congressman or Senator if I can&#39;t skate outside the lines? I make the laws, I should be able to break them&#33; Why send my kid? They might grow up to be somebody&#33; Get some kid from a public school&#33; What do you think they&#39;re there for? To make decisions that&#39;ll affect where I park? Not on your life&#33;")
I am sure that many are dying, both Iraqis and Americans. I&#39;m sure both sides have been inflamed to a good pitch, and I&#39;m sure that both sides will commit atrocities, when defined as "brutal". War is brutal. What I question is not the character of the Americans in Iraq fighting as they&#39;ve been trained. It is the ACTUAL reason we&#39;re there that poses the dilemna. We kill people here, all the time, and innocent ones too, and the method does not change the outcome. Dead is dead. I happen to love this country, very much. But I love it in a way that is considered, and being rendered, obsolete. I think we are "supposed" to be free to speak our minds, and do as we wanted, barring that what we wanted was to harm another person, in some way, be it to their person, their family or their livelihood.
Also freedom to teach and raise our kids how we saw fit. Failure to do so in a competent way is its own consequence. We do not have this freedom.
My last question I&#39;d love to see Mr. Bush answer live is this:
1. What steps are being taken to make sure that "coalition forces" will not take back another type of disease, such as Gulf War Syndrome, which may infect people other then spouses, since there&#39;s been OVER a decade to REFINE and DESIGN NEW chemical and biological weaponry, and which MAY have a MUCH longer incubate time, to allow for what we THINK are "safe returns", and how do we know whether or not the areas which our troops are going over right now have NOT been heavily sprayed with passive contaminants so that every step they take gets them closer to a second contaminant that will turn the passive one active? How do we know whether the 2nd agent is to be applied in Iraq...or in our country?
You seem well able to document every sneeze which results in another accidental death.
Has anyone in your think tanks thought of these things, or are you counting on them?

Try reading:
"The Deliberate Dumbing Down of America", by Charlotte Iserbyte (I may have the last name wrong by a couple letters, but it&#39;s darned close&#33
Also try:
"The Handmaid&#39;s Tale" by Margeret Atwood
"Dune" by Frank Herbert (Written in 1965, to get the original story. His son, Brian, carries on the story remarkably well, but the underlying vision, and the underlying wisdom (Actually, the whole series, and for those less inclined to read all 6 books completely, if you go through and read all the little introductions to each chapter, you get a pretty nice summary of wisdom hard to find in this world. One of my favorite authors for sheer scope and audacity of vision. A remarkable man, and easily my choice if I were asked who I most wanted to meet...ever. Frank Herbert pops up like an underweight piece of toast in a toaster on steroids.

My favorite lessons from Herbert?
Consequences.
My favorite quote from Frank Herbert:
"Life cannot find reasons to sustain it, cannot be a source of decent mutual regard, unless each of us resolves to breathe such qualities into it."
How incredible and how apt...is that?
If you don&#39;t understand it, get a dictionary.
Read it again. Out loud. Then examine yourself.

Also try reading:
(By the way, if you&#39;re under 30 and hate reading...I&#39;m sorry about that. You may wish to give it a try. Critical thinking depends upon more than the small realities we wake and walk through daily, and the future depends on critical thinking...on you.)
"Nature&#39;s End", by Whitley Strieber and James Kunetka
"A Force Upon The Plain: The American Militia Movement and the Politics of Hate" by Kenneth Stern
"The Closing of the American Mind" by Allen Bloom
"An Illiberal Education" and "The End of Racism", both by Dinesh D&#39; Souza
"Excellence: Can We Be Excellent and Equal Too?" by John W. Gardner

I&#39;ll check back on this later today to see how many think I&#39;m nuts...it won&#39;t be a couple, I&#39;m sure.

JUST CURIOUS&#33;

[longterm]

Sorry for the two typos.
reprhasing should read "rephrasing"
and - then- should&#39;ve been "than"
Keen eyes will see where they&#39;re supposed to go.
I detest seeming illterate. My information is volatile enough without people thinking it&#39;s coming from a cretin.
B)