This Picture Breaks My Heart

[Ardor]

Originally posted by kAb@30 March 2003 - 00:19
So in a way, the U.S. liberates countries in the order of their interest. but you can't deny that the iraqi people need liberating.

Well that's all I'm saying. But let's get it straight, liberation is not no.1 on the agenda, Iraq does NOT have weapons that could reach the US, and it is not the moral war the way so many and Bush like to portray it. That is just plain self-deceit in order to justify the war.

Here's an interesting theory for the war: 2 years ago Iraq changed the currency for her Oil from $$ to €€. Other Arabic Nations have been considering to change as well or have already changed. As a result the US economy became disadvantaged compared to Europe. The Euro has been rising, and the Dollar sinking, reccession hits, America needs a solution.

Like magic, the WTC gets hit. Reasons go unexplored, instead any action towards the 'terrorist' nations becomes legitimized and the Bush & Co. have their solution: Appease the American tourists by bombing Afghansistan where Osama may (&#33 be hiding, and then go after the real target, the guy who's been financing terrorism in Palestine (Bush has many Jewish voters), the guy who tried to kill Bush senior in 1993, the guy who dares to sell his oil for Euros!

Then, when Cheney (who mysteriously got the contract 6 months ago&#33 restores the oil-plants, somehow sets it up that oil is traded in Dollars again and gone is the recession and the world is at peace. In the meantime, Israel, knowing that Bush will not go against them and his American-Jewish voters/money, allows the selling of vaccation-homes on the occupied West-Bank territories (True story&#33 and we are back where it started.

Feel free to slag a theory, for that is all it is! But don't sell me the sh*t about being liberators, because that is also just another unproven theory!

It's a sad day for humanity when Patriotism really has become a different word for fascism ie. not accepting the views of others.

[eng60340]

We can't fix all the problems in the world all at once.
But we have to begin somewhere.
Iraq is a good place to start this time.

---------
statements like this.. is not good.

i hope this is not how you truly feel.
cos' if a lot of americans feel this way.

a lot of countries could be invaded under the pretext of liberation.

.....
i watched the news. bbc calls it war in iraq.
mnbc calls it operation iraqi freedom

.... very sad. very very sad.

==
it's fortunate that the war is not so successful.
if it were. then bush would be bolstered and proceed to invade countries
like iran,syria,korea. and what not.

i don't know much about history.
but i think the japanese still think that wwii occured because the japanese were liberating the South east asian from their colonial masters.

---

i used to be quite pro american.
nowadays. i rejoice when i hear americans suffer setbacks.

it's not that i support saddam. but i just feel that the amercian arrogance need some restrain.
(i am not the only one..i was surprise when a friend of mine also expressed similiar rejoice sentiments; he too was pro US in the past)

Clinton was a great president who has created goodwill and budget surplus for US. Bush... well. He squandered everything.
Let's hope MR COWBOY will not get re-elected and normality will return to the world.

[kAb]

yes i'm sure the u.s. government did sept 11 to raise the dollar.

i spit in your face ardor.

as for you english60340:

many countries must awaken to the new world of democracy and equality.

I completely agree with ne1GotZardoz's statement that Iraq is a good place to start (i'm glad to see someone else that is also as sensible as me).

but eng60340, what would happen if we just sat back and didn't do anything? We allow Iraq to get more WoMD, he uses them against major U.S. cities. And according to what you want, we still don't do anything, and they will not attack us? BULLSHIT. They hate us (mostly because they don't live here), and they continue to kill innocent civilians. And then Saddam continues to slaughter his own people.

Have you ever studied Stalin? compare him to Saddam and it is scary at how closely related they appear. Their actions are almost completely identical. The only reason Saddam is not killing as many people as stalin is because there are less in Iraq. The U.S.A. had the chance to stop Russia, but it would result in the Earth's destruction. Saddam is doing the same thing, but it won't result in the Earth's destruction. Tell me, do we allow Saddam to continue?

[ne1GotZardoz]

Originally posted by eng60340@29 March 2003 - 22:35
We can't fix all the problems in the world all at once.
But we have to begin somewhere.
Iraq is a good place to start this time.

---------
statements like this.. is not good.

i hope this is not how you truly feel.
cos' if a lot of americans feel this way.

a lot of countries could be invaded under the pretext of liberation.

.....
i watched the news. bbc calls it war in iraq.
mnbc calls it operation iraqi freedom

.... very sad. very very sad.

==
it's fortunate that the war is not so successful.
if it were. then bush would be bolstered and proceed to invade countries
like iran,syria,korea. and what not.

i don't know much about history.
but i think the japanese still think that wwii occured because the japanese were liberating the South east asian from their colonial masters.

---

i used to be quite pro american.
nowadays. i rejoice when i hear americans suffer setbacks.

it's not that i support saddam. but i just feel that the amercian arrogance need some restrain.
(i am not the only one..i was surprise when a friend of mine also expressed similiar rejoice sentiments; he too was pro US in the past)

Clinton was a great president who has created goodwill and budget surplus for US. Bush... well. He squandered everything.
Let's hope MR COWBOY will not get re-elected and normality will return to the world.

Eng,

Are you suggesting that its a GOOD thing for a regime to believe terrorism is 'ok'?

And that we should just, 'let them be', because it's their choice to torture people?

Are you suggesting that Saddam is the "good guy" in this?

That the Fedayeen is persuing some noble cause as it stakes a man out on a street and cuts out his tongue?

Are you one of those people who looked the other way when my father was drunk and used a leather belt like a whip? Beating me until I bled then some more for good measure?

Do you quietly turn off your light, close your door and go back inside your one room apartment when you see a drugged out mother push her daughter down the stairs because 'the kid just wouldn't shut up'?

Do you turn up your radio to drown out the screams of a housewife who is being raped upstairs by a guy who has been watching and waiting for just the right moment?

It is fortunate for you that not everyone is so apathetic.

Otherwise, you would not be so safe in your private world.

Peace to you.
Everyone needs peace.

[ne1GotZardoz]

Originally posted by Ardor@29 March 2003 - 21:09
Iraq does NOT have weapons that could reach the US

Hmmm...Someone has selective memory here.

You have convieniently forgotten about 9/11.

You have forgotten about the anthrax letters.

Pity for you that no-one else has.

Peace

[eng60340]

read this folks.
http://www.nationaudio.com/News/DailyNatio...nalysis301.html

News_Analysis
Sunday, March 30, 2003
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

SUNNY BINDRA
They see no blood but chessboard

And so we have a war. If you listen to American President George W. Bush, this is a noble war, indeed. It is about freeing Iraqis from the shackles of a cruel dictator. It is about creating a model for democracy in the Middle East. It is about eliminating terrorism from its roots.

Don’t listen to this stuff too early in the morning; you may lose your breakfast. If you believe America is merely reacting to the horrific, unprovoked terrorism emanating from Arab nations, here’s something interesting to consider. The author George Monbiot recently chronicled the activities of the Project for the New American Century, a pressure group established by, among others, Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Jeb Bush and Paul Wolfowitz. These gentlemen are now high-profile members of the US Government, and have been instrumental in orchestrating the lead-up to the war.

More than five years ago, these men urged the "removal of Saddam Hussein’s regime from power". They stated, even then, that "American policy cannot continue to be crippled by a misguided insistence on unanimity in the UN Security Council."

In 2000, their inner plan was seeing light. A confidential report said: "While the unresolved conflict with Iraq provides the immediate justification, the need for a substantial American force presence in the Gulf transcends the issue of the regime of Saddam Hussein." The wider strategic aim was "maintaining global US pre-eminence".

These people are in power now, and their elevation made this war truly inevitable. Saddam is merely a pawn whose previous atrocities made him an easy target. September 11 provided the excuse and the means to rally Americans behind this madness. Iraq is merely step one. The ultimate goal is ‘full-spectrum dominance’ by the US. America will feel the backlash to this leadership for generations to come.

Britain is another country that has been championing the war. Listen to Prime Minister Tony Blair: "These tyrannical states do not care for the sanctity of human life". And: "(We shall) put the money from Iraqi oil in a UN trust fund so that it benefits Iraq and no-one else". I believe him; don’t you?

Consider the activities of an earlier British Government in Iraq. The Guardian newspaper revealed recently that a chemical plant that the US says is a key component in Iraq’s chemical warfare arsenal was secretly built by Britain in 1985. Documents show that ministers in Mrs Margaret Thatcher’s government knew that the Falluja 2 chlorine plant was likely to be used for mustard and nerve gas production. Yet, the ministers secretly gave insurance guarantees to the British company involved. Why? Because, said Mr Paul Channon, then Trade minister: "A ban would do our other trade prospects with Iraq no good".

And so Saddam went on to develop lethal gases and use them on Kurds and Iranians. And the British ministers sat back and commended themselves on protecting British trade prospects.

So when their leaders speak to us of "the sanctity of human life", we know to which humans they refer: as the war broke out last week, the Queen of England excelled herself in saying that she would be praying for the British troops involved.

You’ll forgive me, then, for taking the words of these oh-so-righteous moralisers with truckloads of salt. How they wax lyrical in their moral crusade now, when the same demon Saddam was their favourite Arab in the 1980s! How gallantly they come dashing in on their white chargers to rid the world of evil! The same evil they were busy installing and supporting not so long ago.

Let’s state facts. This war is about flexing US muscles. It is merely a warm-up exercise in a bigger game. It is the pre-cursor to total domination of the Middle East and its oil reserves. Iraq is a pitifully easy target on which to practice.

As for Messrs Bush and Blair’s concern for the Iraqi people: please. They do not give a flying damn about those unfortunate Arabs. We were told the same thing about the even more unfortunate Afghans: That they had to be bombed to smithereens in order to liberate them from an evil regime. That the US’s main concern was the well being of the ordinary people. But having effected the regime change, does the US care about the poor old Afghans?

World Bank President James Wolfensohn recently bemoaned the lack of aid money flowing in to help rebuild Afghanistan. Such is the lack of US concern for that blighted and barren land that the drug lords are taking over again. The Taliban at least banned the cultivation of opium; today, Mr Wolfensohn estimates that three-quarters of all European heroin comes from Afghanistan. Poor Afghanistan: It has no oil, you see. The Americans flattened it and moved on.

The sad thing is that the people who orchestrate these wars feel no personal repercussions. The likes of Bush and Blair have never seen combat, have never lain under a bed wondering if the sound of the screaming missile overhead is the last thing they will hear. But they happily despatch their troops to do these monstrous things on their behalf. To the families of those who meet a grisly end, they offer the meaningless comfort that their sons died in a noble cause. To the bombed-out Afghans and Iraqis, they offer food and medicine. It’s that easy to wipe out the stain.

When you and I stare at the TV screen and see the carnage, we feel something. We see that blood-soaked child in the arms of its screaming mother, and we want to cry with her.

They see no blood and hear no screams. They see only a chessboard, on which they play their games of domination.

Who will protect us from these people? We must protect ourselves. This war has the lowest level of international support since Vietnam. It is co-ordinated by a motley crew of reprobates: some unhinged by the smell of power, others just dangerously stupid. We must stand up and be counted in our opposition to them. Booker-Prize winning writer Arundhati Roy put it well: "Remember this: We be many and they be few. They need us more than we need them."

Mr Bindra is a writer and management consultant in Nairobi.

[ne1GotZardoz]

Originally posted by eng60340@30 March 2003 - 00:17
read this folks.
http://www.nationaudio.com/News/DailyNatio...nalysis301.html

News_Analysis
Sunday, March 30, 2003
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

SUNNY BINDRA
They see no blood but chessboard

Writers and pundits.

Conspiracy theories.

And still, Saddam's regime kills innocent children with grenade launcher in the streets when their parents try to get them to safety.

I am sorry for you sir.

In the light of truth, you still have your head stuck in underlying themes.

There are always underlying themes.

Don't you know anything about yourself?

Everything you do has several different motivations, benifits and drawbacks.

A worm benifits a farmer by loosening the soil.

When writers write about the lowly worm, that is what they refer to.
Do you think the worm is thinking about the good he does for the farmer as he busily digests the tiny microbes and decaying plant matter in the soil?

Just because there are other benifits to our liberation of Iraq does not mean that is the main theme.
Doesn't even mean Bush considered it before he was questioned on it.
It only means those benifits exist and a writer somewhere recognized them.
There are many reason for wanting stability in the middle east.
And yes. Of course they benifit us.
They benifit the whole world.

Except of course for you and Saddam Hussein's regime.

Peace

[xandariel]

I think it's time for Americans to wake up and smell the stink of their so-called moral righteousness. It is extremely nauseating to hear yet another time the moral need for what they do. Does Bush think people are stupid and that they can't hear the irony in what he says?

Are you suggesting that Saddam is the "good guy" in this?

No, we're saying that right now, U.S. is the bad guy, the worst possible kind, the kind that pretends to be kind and good while doing the most heinous of acts. "I don't want to do this but!"

I don't for one second believe that U.S. is doing this to save that "raped housewife." It seems that U.S is just waiting to have a go at her himself.

The worst of it is that you people BELIEVE all this... propagandistic CRAP by the US government in the face of the obvious (refer article posted by eng about oiless Afghanistan). It is worse than terrorism. You're never in the wrong are you? Of course not, if they are not with you, they are retards.

terrorists kill themselves cause they're fuckin retards. they think that they get to fuck virgins in heaven if they kill americans.

See what I mean? Thank you for illustrating my point about the arrogance, ignorance and immaturity spewed by many Americans.

[kAb]

Originally posted by xandariel@29 March 2003 - 21:45
See what I mean? Thank you for illustrating my point about the arrogance, ignorance and immaturity spewed by many Americans.

its true!!

look it up. like i did.

how is my hating them make me arrogant, ignorant, and immature? those motherfuckers kill people everyday. Have you also forgotten about sept. 11?

[zhelynd]

Kab, I think you lack the understanding of people's intention.

People don't kill themselves to blow up the world trade center because they are jealous of Americans. Think of that you guys have military bases all over the world, pushing others to do the "american way", and intervening other countries' internal affairs, this is why some part of the world hated the americans so much.

If Americans refuse to look into these facts, they will face many more 9-11 to come in future years wether saddamn or bin ladden is alive or dead.