This Picture Breaks My Heart

[Rat Faced]

Also, has a link actually been established between Al Qaeda and Saddam Hussain?

Yes, Al Qaeda bombs the shit out of Iraq, and Hussain shoots 'em when he catches them.


Question: Has a link been shown between Al Qaeda and Iraq?

Ans: Yes....See above AND..... Al Qaeda are sheltered in Northern Iraq, where the Kurds are in control and Hussain cant reach them.

ie
The Kurdish Allies to the Coalition in the war against Iraq are the supporters of Al Qaeda in Iraq......ironic or what?

Anyone remember that SitCom from years ago....."SOAP".

[ThE_MP3_G0d]

Originally posted by eng60340@27 March 2003 - 08:47
perhaps you expect war to be

1) US soldiers giving candies to smiling starving iraqi children
2) US putting out oil fires
3) US clearing mines

i would like to point out that NONE of this need to take place if US has been a little more diplomatic.
(snip,snip)
the iraqis have compromised time and again.
(what ?! you want to check our palaces ? NO ! .. ummm. very well then)
(what ?! you want us to disarm our missiles ? NO ! .. umm very well then)
and etc.

the goal post just keeps shifting with each compromise.
...

U sir, are the perpetuator of some REALLY misinformed HOGWASH. Before I continue I would like for you to dissiminate portions of this article. Or for that fact you can find a great deal of information concerning these issues by using Google and searching for pertinent wrods(such as Iraq, SCUD Missile, UN Security Council Resolution 687, ect). Please do a little research before you make comments such as these. Something that really bothers me is people who jump to conclusions before they know facts. The US government may be doing things for reasons of their own(money,greed, did I say money? Oh and greed too) but they picked a wonderful time to do it. They have a legitimate reason (noncompliance with 2 separate UN inspection teams) and even if the UN does not support action, I for one can agree with their position. If they have such a hard time showing that they do not have or are not making WMD-that means they have or are making them. The list of "rogue states" was made for a reason. "Although we were already concerned about a reconstituted nuclear weapons program, our concerns were increased last September when Saddam publicly exhorted his "Nuclear Mujahidin" to "defeat the enemy." " Considering they are devoloping a method of delivering such a weapon to a much MUCH longer range....that makes me very concerned.

But what has me even more concerned is the way some people see all this...that is probably the scariest part of all of this..

[ne1GotZardoz]

Originally posted by Ardor@1 April 2003 - 07:15
No, I did NOT say that the US flew into the WTC, it is the way YOU read it! Magic can also be used in 'The man stood outside in the rain, and LIKE MAGIC, lightning hits'. Did the man create the lightning? NO but it can be READ like he should not have stood in the rain.
But if that made you angry, you definitely won't like what I have to say next ;-)

OK the following is a rant on what I think about current events.

America has become a fascist state, dependant on propaganda and influencing public opinion at home. Whilst it should be a democracy, it has a federal state, seperate from the state(s) and difficult to put on a leash.

An example of propaganda would be 'Precision Missiles'. When Rumsfeld gave his little speech about how this war would be like none before and we can't imaging how precise missiles have become, only government-buildings would be hit, the civilian infrastucture would be held intact!

This reminded me of a commercial for washing-powder: 'Wash&Clean has the all improved formula. It wil clean that dirt of your clothes, while preserving and restoring colours prefectly. It is a washing powder like never experienced before. Out now!' You know what I do, when I see a commercial? I switch the channel! Because I know in the small-print there's always some kind of disclaimer, denying that results will not actually look like in the actual commercial. In other words: Bullshit!

Another example of propaganda is the images shown on CNN, Fox, etc. Basically the brave American, and little Iraqi children with chocolate in their faces screaming Americani, Americani. Is that objectivity for you? Or a Kurd catholic, naming his child 'Dick Cheney' because it is so brave. And when someone shows a girl bleeding, its something you already saw on Rotten.com. And when Al Jazeera shows such images, it is an Iraqi propaganda machine and their site gets hacked. Who is the propaganda machine? Whatver happened to those reporters that showed pictures of alleged Terrorists at Quantanamo bay? Before you say, they were not War Criminals, read The relevant article, and I quote:

Article 5:
Should any doubt arise as to whether persons, having committed a belligerent act and having fallen into the hands of the enemy, belong to any of the categories enumerated in Article 4, such persons shall enjoy the protection of the present Convention until such time as their status has been determined by a competent tribunal.

Let's analyse the support for the US war. Spain: last time I checked 91% of the Spanish is AGAINST the war! UK: Majority is AGAINST the war! Australia: Majority is AGAINST the war! Israel: Fascist states don't count! Don't know about Portugal, do know that they all get something out of supporting, and it ain't world-democracy.

Let's think about about current events some more. Microsoft, a monopoly with an imperfect product, calls open-source software a virus. No one can deny that it is everything, Microsoft does NOT stand for. Warez: labeld as terrorism by several institutions who have a monopoly and overcharge customers. Giving stuff away for free? That is something corporations do NOT stand for. Investment into 3rd world countries? That is something the western world does NOT stand for! A palestinian state? That is something Israel does not stand for! Osama? Created for the very reason, that his leaders are controlled by money and are dictators!

Fact is that ignoring all Bullshit political statements, the US has the most hated government in the world. And why not? It works on the principal, that might is right, whenever it has 'helped' poorer nations it was either through supplying weapons, or loans which demanded huge concessions in return. It created drug-smuggling and drug-nations. How? By making it illegal, it made it the most overvalued substance in the world. Even shooting down a columbian plane, is ineffective, as selling 1/4th that planes content pays for another plane within a week.

It created dictators like Saddam, 1st by supporting him militarily against Iran, then imposing sanctions on Iraq making the Iraqis poorer and more dependant on Saddam then ever. Now they want to liberate Iraq? They will come in, put a military government in power, find another pro-american wuss for a leader like in Afghanistan and then leave. That's liberation for you? In the words of Raed: "How could “support democracy in Iraq” become to mean “bomb the hell out of Iraq”?" Answer: it is not about democracy, it is about pro-american spirit.

Fact is, that as long as the US keeps stepping on the rest of the world it will not be liked. Another fact is that by waging this illegal war, the US risks creating 1000s of more Osamas. Another fact is, that by going against the UN, it has opened a wide door for other countries to ignore the UN. In other words: Chaos! People say the UN is ineffective. Yet it is an institution created for peace, has kept the peace for a long time, created the very lifeline (food for oil) which kept the Iraqi people alive, during the US's harsh sanctions. Only throgh support by it's members can an institution remain to be effective!

What is democracy? Having a choice to say no. Why does Bush not bomb Florida? Because it is a democracy that prevents him from doing so. Why does the US not bomb Europe? Because 2/3rds of investment is foreign owned (dated 2000). Why is the majority of the US prison-population black? Because 'Might is Right'! Why does Isarel take more land away from Palestine everyday? Because 'Might is Right'!

What is democracy? Education! Only through education could people wise up. Revolt against their governments if that government surpresses them. What does education bring? Peace! An stupid man will grab his gun to solve conflicts, an intelligent man will use his head and his words. I'll be surprised if the US has ever introduced an infrastructure of providing education into a country it has bombed. Because that would actually be freedom and democracy!

Back to terrorism! South Africa, until 15 years ago: a surpressed nation. The African National Party (ANP), under Nelson Mandela, was labeld as terrorist organisation by the While National Party. Black people had no right, like Palestinians in Israel. In S.Africa it went pretty far, black people where shot, imprisoned, tortured. All rights to education was taken away.

The ANP did fight back however. They bombed important government buildings, some people where killed. Without exploring alternative means, the white government continued to surpress blacks and take more and more away from them: Land, education, rights. The black people were looked down upon, spat on, looked at like devils. It was only because the world continued to support Mandella and the African people, that finally Mandella was freed, and a joint government was created. But surpression still happens in Israel TODAY!

Is the society we want to live in, one that is dominated by violence, by money, by blind conservatism? Or is it one that is based upon human values? One, where I respect you, and you respect me?


End Rant.

I read your post.
Alot of justification of Iraqi action there.
So, you condone Iraq's use of civilians as sheilds?

You believe its a good thing for the Fedayeen to push smal children in front of them in the dark of night and fire on our troops so that when our soldiers fire back, the children will be shot?

Our soldiers were in tears when they realized the next morning what they had done.

Do you think the Fedayeen cried over that?

Do you think they gave a damn about those children?

You are a moron if you expect me to buy YOUR bullsh*t.

And you're a bigger moron if you believe it yourself.

Peace

[soopaman]

Originally posted by Ardor@1 April 2003 - 13:15


Let's analyse the support for the US war. Spain: last time I checked 91% of the Spanish is AGAINST the war! UK: Majority is AGAINST the war! Australia: Majority is AGAINST the war! Israel: Fascist states don't count! Don't know about Portugal, do know that they all get something out of supporting, and it ain't world-democracy.



Fact is that ignoring all Bullshit political statements, the US has the most hated government in the world. And why not? It works on the principal, that might is right, whenever it has 'helped' poorer nations it was either through supplying weapons, or loans which demanded huge concessions in return. It created drug-smuggling and drug-nations. How? By making it illegal, it made it the most overvalued substance in the world. Even shooting down a columbian plane, is ineffective, as selling 1/4th that planes content pays for another plane within a week.

Fact is, that as long as the US keeps stepping on the rest of the world it will not be liked. Another fact is that by waging this illegal war, the US risks creating 1000s of more Osamas. Another fact is, that by going against the UN, it has opened a wide door for other countries to ignore the UN. In other words: Chaos! People say the UN is ineffective. Yet it is an institution created for peace, has kept the peace for a long time, created the very lifeline (food for oil) which kept the Iraqi people alive, during the US's harsh sanctions. Only throgh support by it's members can an institution remain to be effective!

What is democracy? Having a choice to say no. Why does Bush not bomb Florida? Because it is a democracy that prevents him from doing so. Why does the US not bomb Europe? Because 2/3rds of investment is foreign owned (dated 2000). Why is the majority of the US prison-population black? Because 'Might is Right'! Why does Isarel take more land away from Palestine everyday? Because 'Might is Right'!

Back to terrorism! South Africa, until 15 years ago: a surpressed nation. The African National Party (ANP), under Nelson Mandela, was labeld as terrorist organisation by the While National Party. Black people had no right, like Palestinians in Israel. In S.Africa it went pretty far, black people where shot, imprisoned, tortured. All rights to education was taken away.

The ANP did fight back however. They bombed important government buildings, some people where killed. Without exploring alternative means, the white government continued to surpress blacks and take more and more away from them: Land, education, rights. The black people were looked down upon, spat on, looked at like devils. It was only because the world continued to support Mandella and the African people, that finally Mandella was freed, and a joint government was created. But supression still happens in Israel TODAY!

Is the society we want to live in, one that is dominated by violence, by money, by blind conservatism? Or is it one that is based upon human values? One, where I respect you, and you respect me?


End Rant.

Bit of a rant there Ardor. Are you feeling better now? I hope so. As for the majority of people in the U.K being against the war, I'm not sure if that's true. Only a million people turned out for the Anti-War Demonstration in London. What were the other 59 million citizens of the U.K doing?? They certainly weren't joining the knee-jerk, anti-American, anti-Israel brigade. The majority of people on that march had nothing to say about the suppression of the Iraqi people. It was just about slating America/Bush, Israel, Globalisation, Blair and Fox Hunting. None of the protesters I spoke to had any cohesive arguments. They ALL seemed to share a deep-seated hatred of America and England. I also asked "Why", if they feel so strongly, " don't they go to countries like Iraq, Syria, Iran, North Korea and protest against the conditions there??" and do you know what? They muttered a few excuses but couldn't answer. That goes to show the commitment of the Anti-War lobby. As for the so-called celebrities against the War, don't make me vomit with your cynical marketing. All they are interested in is £££££'s and $$$$$'s. Whores!!

Last thing I heard it wasn't illegal to offer a loan and charge interest. If certain African "Heads of State" want to spend their loans on AK47's and Roll's Royce's, so be it. Personally I think they should provide food clothing and education for their people but that's just my opinion.

Also, the United Nations has been ineffective virtually since it was founded. I can't think of any war that it has solved. The only time that it has ever influenced another State is when backed up by force, US force!!

The reason that the majority of the American Prison System is Black is a completely seperate issue and should be left to another topic. Maybe it's cos they commit more crime?

And it's the ANC, the African National Congress, not ANP. They were a terrorist organistion involved in murder, bombings and extortion. Mandela, not "Mandella", was a convicted terrorist - does that mean in 27 years time Bin Laden will be President of Saudi Arabia?? Who knows? I hope not. If you are going to make a serious point at least read up on the subject. Not knowing how to spell Mandela and the ANC was a giveaway.

Hate to burst your bubble but, Utopia doesn't exist!!

[junkyardking]

First of all Columbia, America does have some troops there training and whatnot and even in combat. and wait what does Columbia have, ahh yes oil oh and wait it also has some reds, so its reds under the bed.

ne1GotZardoz Posted: 30 March 2003 - 02:14
Hmmm...Someone has selective memory here.

You have convieniently forgotten about 9/11.

You have forgotten about the anthrax letters.

Pity for you that no-one else has.

Peace

9/11 - Osama Bin laden not Saddam and by the way where is Osama?

Anthrax - This happened to be around the same time as 9/11
And letters with the Anthrax were "religous" ect.
But the Anthrax was a strain that comes from a US military labatory
and it is now though that the Anthrax Incidences were from a Person or persons inside the
Laboraty who were trying to wake up the Government on how slack the sercurity/ procedures,
Although a bit extreme government tends to only pay attention when something serveley bad
happens e.g. Death.

It's a pity you dont check the facts ne1GotZardoz.

[ne1GotZardoz]

Originally posted by junkyardking@6 April 2003 - 07:18
First of all Columbia, America does have some troops there training and whatnot and even in combat. and wait what does Columbia have, ahh yes oil oh and wait it also has some reds, so its reds under the bed.

What are 'reds'? Communists perhaps?
And whats with the Dr Seuss rhyme?

Columbia has something else that, in my opinion anyway, is much more valuable...A most excelent stash of Mary Jane.

I didn't know they were oil rich but since you say they are, I believe it. I may research it if the issue becomes important enough.

Perhaps they should start converting that oil to money. Maybe that would get them out of their drug sales dependancy.

I still think people should grow there own. Much safer all around.

9/11 - Osama Bin laden not Saddam and by the way where is Osama?

Probably Siria. That seems to be the preferance among most political exiles in that region.

I don't think Iran would take him. They seem to be making a sincere attempt at growing up with the rest of the world.

Anthrax - This happened to be around the same time as 9/11
                And letters with the Anthrax were "religous" ect.
                But the Anthrax was a strain that comes from a US military labatory
                and it is now though that the Anthrax Incidences were from a Person or persons inside the
                Laboraty who were trying to wake up the Government on how slack the sercurity/ procedures,
                Although a bit extreme government tends to only pay attention when something serveley bad
                happens e.g. Death.

http://www.fbi.gov/

I checked through most of the anthrax related pages. Didn't find anything like you mentioned.
Since the FBI was heading the investigation, I would expect it to be there.
You get your info from some other source?

Please let me know.

It's a pity you dont check the facts ne1GotZardoz.

You may be right.

Maybe.

[soopaman]

Originally posted by ne1GotZardoz@6 April 2003 - 17:05
Columbia has something else that, in my opinion anyway, is much more valuable...A most excelent stash of Mary Jane.
Perhaps they should start converting that oil to money. Maybe that would get them out of their drug sales dependancy.
I still think people should grow there own. Much safer all around.

Why should the Columbians in power give up the Cocaine trade when they make more cash from that than they would if they sold all their oil 10 times over?? They ain't stupid.
As for growing at home, you definately have the right idea!!! B)
If the US and Britain legalised drugs they wouldn't have such fucked up economies. No deficits ever!!

[Rat Faced]

Originally posted by soopaman+6 April 2003 - 22:32--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (soopaman @ 6 April 2003 - 22:32)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--ne1GotZardoz@6 April 2003 - 17:05
Columbia has something else that, in my opinion anyway, is much more valuable...A most excelent stash of Mary Jane.
Perhaps they should start converting that oil to money. Maybe that would get them out of their drug sales dependancy.
I still think people should grow there own. Much safer all around.

Why should the Columbians in power give up the Cocaine trade when they make more cash from that than they would if they sold all their oil 10 times over?? They ain&#39;t stupid.
As for growing at home, you definately have the right idea&#33;&#33;&#33; B)
If the US and Britain legalised drugs they wouldn&#39;t have such fucked up economies. No deficits ever&#33;&#33; [/b][/quote]
True.

You could call the results part of the evolutionary process......

But until the Junkies all killed themselves, we might as well get some tax off them....they wouldnt complain, they&#39;d still be paying a lot less than Black Market Prices....

[Barbarossa]

Originally posted by Rat Faced@6 April 2003 - 23:00

But until the Junkies all killed themselves, we might as well get some tax off them....they wouldnt complain, they&#39;d still be paying a lot less than Black Market Prices....

Excellent&#33;

Well it works for tobacco and alcohol, why not drugs too?

RatFaced, if you even go into politics tell me, I&#39;ll vote for you&#33;

[FlamingYob]

I couldn&#39;t really give a rats ass. I&#39;m a cold human being anyway, fuck everyone.