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Thread: New Bin Laden tape on Al Jazeera.

  1. #21
    This bbc journalist seems to think it might favour bush in the end...
    For the American voter, this tape - rolled like a political hand grenade into the closing moments of the election campaign - might have two opposite meanings. It might mean that the "war on terror" has failed: the leadership of al-Qaeda appears free to operate and articulate its message three years after the "war" was declared. In turn, that might bolster a support for change, and a Democratic president - John Kerry. But it could, however, have the opposite effect.

    Voters might perceive it as affirmation of President George W Bush's stance that the terrorist threat is very much alive. And that could cause undecided voters to break towards Mr Bush in affirmation of his war on terror, and the policies he espouses to pursue it. Of crucial importance now is the way that both campaigns handle the tape, the way they describe it, draw conclusions from it, and spin it to the voters.

    The Republicans probably have the easier job here. Nothing Bin Laden says on the tape fundamentally challenges or changes the administration's assumptions about the war on terror. Everything he says seems to bolster the importance and significance of the war on terror. It brings to life to the idea that terrorism is still a threat to the US, and that Mr Bush is correct to frame his presidency in terms of America's security.

    For the Democrats, the job is much more difficult. Many of the criticisms and observations made by Bin Laden in this tape - that President Bush is untruthful, that he has mismanaged the war on terror - are themes that appear in the Democratic campaign. Mr Kerry cannot afford to even remotely appear to be capitalising on this tape, or echoing sentiments in it. His most likely response is to repeat his assertion that the war in Iraq has been a diversion; that the real threat is Bin Laden; and after three years he is still making threats while American forces are overstretched in Iraq.

    We know that voters, when questioned about national security, place greater faith in Mr Bush than in Mr Kerry. The impact of the tape on the closing moments of the campaign will only become clear in the next day or two. But it would be wrong to assume that it is all bad news for Mr Bush's re-election chances.

  2. The Drawing Room   -   #22
    ruthie's Avatar Poster
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    Quote Originally Posted by manker
    I suggest you rephrase that.

    Unless you believe that ending circa 3,000 innocent lives is also justified, as OBL is preaching in that clear threat to kill even more civillians if his terms are not met. You can't have it both ways.

    This is the guy who is responsible for atrocities worse than those doled out by the coalition force yet you laud him as 'right' when he justifies his past actions and threatens more of the same. To me condemning this statement is a no-brainer.

    His sentiment may have some merit but his methods do not.

    The key here, for me at least, is your last statement, manker. His methods are abhorrant, but I understand what he is saying. I do not, in any way, "approve of " bin Laden or his actions. some of the statements, questions he asked/made are quite understandable, such as
    "Which religion considers your killed ones innocent and our killed ones worthless? And which principle considers your blood real blood and our blood water?"
    Last edited by ruthie; 10-30-2004 at 05:49 PM.
    Don't read what isn't there.

    anywhichway

  3. The Drawing Room   -   #23
    Rat Faced's Avatar Broken
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    I would also wonder if 3000 deaths at WTC is a worse atrocity than 100,000's dying due to lack of medical aid and due to the bombing of Water Purification Plants between the 2 Iraq wars...

    I find both shocking and horror filled... but at least the 3000 deaths were quick ones, relatively speaking.

    Deaths of any innocents, under any guise, is just as disgusting to me.

    An It Harm None, Do What You Will

  4. The Drawing Room   -   #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by manker
    I suggest you rephrase that.

    Unless you believe that ending circa 3,000 innocent lives is also justified, as OBL is preaching in that clear threat to kill even more civillians if his terms are not met. You can't have it both ways.

    This is the guy who is responsible for atrocities worse than those doled out by the coalition force yet you laud him as 'right' when he justifies his past actions and threatens more of the same. To me condemning this statement is a no-brainer.

    His sentiment may have some merit but his methods do not.
    He's right. If I am objective and just read his words, he's right. Is killing thousands of innocent Iraqis any more justified because we do it wearing a uniform with fancy high tech weapons and in the "name" of an established state? He is threatening to kill more of us, but in our American arrogance we won't even consider what he is saying, won't even consider his points. We write him off as a "savage" (Kerry's word) instead.

    911 was an oportunity to review what we do throughout the world, not just the mid-east, and see where we fall far short of our supposed values, but we missed it.
    Ancient Bush family proverb; Give a man a fish and he'll eat for a day... drown him in the lake and he'll never be hungry again.

    Any Which Way.... because there's more to it than Fox tells you.

  5. The Drawing Room   -   #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rat Faced
    I would also wonder if 3000 deaths at WTC is a worse atrocity than 100,000's dying due to lack of medical aid and due to the bombing of Water Purification Plants between the 2 Iraq wars...

    I find both shocking and horror filled... but at least the 3000 deaths were quick ones, relatively speaking.

    Deaths of any innocents, under any guise, is just as disgusting to me.
    Hmmmmm, beat me to it didn't ya...
    Ancient Bush family proverb; Give a man a fish and he'll eat for a day... drown him in the lake and he'll never be hungry again.

    Any Which Way.... because there's more to it than Fox tells you.

  6. The Drawing Room   -   #26
    Skillian's Avatar T H F C f a n BT Rep: +1
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    The BBc reporting of the story has this translation of the extracts aired on Al Jazeera:

    Oh American people, my talk to you is about the best way to avoid another Manhattan, about the war, its causes, and results.

    Security is an important pillar of human life. Free people do not relinquish their security. This is contrary to Bush's claim that we hate freedom.

    Let him tell us why we did not strike Sweden, for example. It is known that those who hate freedom do not have proud souls, like the souls of the 19 people [killed while perpetrating the 11 September 2001 attacks], may God have mercy on them.

    We fought you because we are free and do not accept injustice. We want to restore freedom to our nation. Just as you waste our security, we will waste your security.

    'Striking the towers'

    I am amazed at you. Although almost four years have passed since the [11 September] incidents, Bush is still practising distortion and confusion.

    He also continues to conceal from you the real reason [for the 11 September attacks]. Thus, the motives still exist for repeating what happened.

    I will speak to you about the reasons behind these incidents. I will honestly tell you about the minutes in which the decision was made so that you will consider. I say to you that God knows that the idea of striking the towers never occurred to us.


    Your security is in your own hands

    But, after things had gone too far and we saw the injustice of the US-Israeli alliance against our people in Palestine and Lebanon, I started thinking of that.

    The events that influenced me directly trace back to 1982 and subsequent events when the United States gave permission to the Israelis to invade Lebanon, with the aid of the sixth US fleet.

    At those difficult moments, many meanings that are hard to describe went on in my mind. However, these meanings produced an overwhelming feeling to reject injustice and generated a strong determination to punish the unjust ones.

    While I was looking at those destroyed towers in Lebanon, it occurred to me to punish the unjust one in a similar manner by destroying towers in the United States so that it would feel some of what we felt and to be deterred from killing our children and women...

    We did not find it difficult to deal with Bush and his administration, because it is similar to regimes in our countries, half of which are governed by the military and the other half of which are governed by the sons of kings and presidents; and we have a long experience with them.

    In both categories, you find many who are characterised by hubris, arrogance, greed, and unlawful acquisition of money. This similarity transpired since Bush Senior's visit to the region.

    'Election rigging'

    While some of our people were dazzled by the United States and hoped that these visits would affect our countries, he, instead, was affected by these royal and military regimes, envying them for remaining in their posts for scores of years, embezzling public money without being held accountable or monitored.

    Accordingly, he transferred dictatorship and the repression of freedoms to his son by introducing the Patriot Act under the pretext of fighting terrorism.

    Bush Senior deemed it appropriate to assign his sons to states. He also did not forget to convey the [election] rigging experience from the leaders of the [Arab] region to Florida to benefit from it at critical times...

    We had agreed with the chief amir [leader - of the 11 September hijackers] Mohammed Atta that he should accomplish all the operations within 20 minutes before Bush and his administration could take notice.

    It never occurred to us that the supreme commander of the US armed forces would leave 50,000 of his citizens in the two towers to face those great horrors alone, at a time when they needed him badly.

    This is because it seemed to him that being preoccupied with the little child's talk about her goat and its butting was more important than being preoccupied with the planes and their ramming into the skyscrapers.

    This gave with three times the period required for carrying out the operations, praise be to God.

    Your security does not lie in the hands of Kerry, Bush, or al-Qaeda. Your security is in your own hands. Each and every state that does not tamper with our security will have automatically assured its own security
    It is strange when you find yourself agreeing with many of the points made by someone you have always been told is an evil madman. Of course I will never find myself agreeing with his methods.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mid...st/3966817.stm

  7. The Drawing Room   -   #27
    DanB's Avatar Smoke weed everyday
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skillian
    The BBc reporting of the story has this translation of the extracts aired on Al Jazeera:



    It is strange when you find yourself agreeing with many of the points made by someone you have always been told is an evil madman. Of course I will never find myself agreeing with his methods.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mid...st/3966817.stm

    Isn't it just

  8. The Drawing Room   -   #28
    MagicNakor's Avatar On the Peripheral
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    Bin Laden's peace treaty for Europe was aired April 15, 2004, just a little over a month *after* the Madrid bombing, which was March 11, 2004.

    There goes that theory, then.

    things are quiet until hitler decides he'd like to invade russia
    so, he does
    the russians are like "OMG WTF D00DZ, STOP TKING"
    and the germans are still like "omg ph34r n00bz"
    the russians fall back, all the way to moscow
    and then they all begin h4xing, which brings on the russian winter
    the germans are like "wtf, h4x"
    -- WW2 for the l33t

  9. The Drawing Room   -   #29
    BigBank_Hank's Avatar Move It On Over
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    Something that no one ever has brought up here is why is it that every time a terrorist tape is aired Al Jazeera always seems to break the story. To me this is more than a coincidence.

  10. The Drawing Room   -   #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigBank_Hank
    Something that no one ever has brought up here is why is it that every time a terrorist tape is aired Al Jazeera always seems to break the story. To me this is more than a coincidence.
    Who should he send it to... Fox?
    Ancient Bush family proverb; Give a man a fish and he'll eat for a day... drown him in the lake and he'll never be hungry again.

    Any Which Way.... because there's more to it than Fox tells you.

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