When the "followers of christ" are trying to make laws based on their bible, I'm a proud christophobe.Originally Posted by spinningfreemanny
lol...
jesusland....has a ring to it
I smell a christophobe...
Keep your bible off my laws.
When the "followers of christ" are trying to make laws based on their bible, I'm a proud christophobe.lol...
jesusland....has a ring to it
I smell a christophobe...
Keep your bible off my laws.
Ancient Bush family proverb; Give a man a fish and he'll eat for a day... drown him in the lake and he'll never be hungry again.
Any Which Way.... because there's more to it than Fox tells you.
Four years in the US Marine Corps manny... you?
Were I of age, I would join up because I support the troops. I wouldn't sit home all safe and warm.
Last edited by scroff; 11-06-2004 at 12:04 AM.
Ancient Bush family proverb; Give a man a fish and he'll eat for a day... drown him in the lake and he'll never be hungry again.
Broken
I believe Scrogg is an ex-Marine....
Next?
An It Harm None, Do What You Will
I'm everything you want
Crap
Apologies.
I have explained my position to Vid; if he is willing to share what I wrote; your free to ask him, I give him permission.
Last edited by spinningfreemanny; 11-06-2004 at 03:40 AM.
Do you know everything? do you know 3% of everything? Could it be that what you don't believe in is in the other 97%?
Don't apologize to me, or to Rat... apologize to the guys your age that are in Fallujah today. Apologize to these guys... I'm sure they'll let you off the hook.Crap
Apologies.
I believe I saw it, you found it warming that other guys your age were leaving their families and jobs and carreers and educations... I remember, I even replied in a general way...I have explained my position to Vid; if he is willing to share what I wrote; your free to ask him, I give him permission.
Did it ever occur to you, to any young man or woman sitting in their living room, not just you manny, that some of those guys might want to get home and have a beer with their friends, or maybe see their children, or maybe just get on with life, like you are? Has it crossed your mind that if all the young chickenhawks were to enlist you might be able to show some appreciation for their sacrifice by taking their place for a time, thereby letting some of them enjoy the fruits of their labors? Or do you just think selfishly about your "occupation" and your family and your "security"? Unless you're physically unable to serve, you belong in the military right now if you are of age and "support the war effort". Otherwise you're a hypocrite and a coward... in other words, a chickenhawk
Hypothetical question, manny... what would you do if they start up the draft... all it would take is an executive order. There's no need for any new bills to pass, the draft was suspended, not ended. So what would you do? Where would you go to protect your "occupation", to improve your situation in life?
Last edited by scroff; 11-06-2004 at 04:25 AM.
Ancient Bush family proverb; Give a man a fish and he'll eat for a day... drown him in the lake and he'll never be hungry again.
I'm everything you want
You did not read what I wrote, because I wrote it in PM.
I think that you mistake the motives of the majority in the military. Do they "just think selfishly about their "occupation" and their family and their security" by joining the armed forces? Because surely that is exactly their motives for doing such. Their only requirement (and I plagerize this from family members and other servicemen in Iraq) is that if they die they die with the honor and respect of successfully serving their country.
I completely grasp that those willing in Iraq right now take my place and fight for me. A draft will not come; but if such a thing arose you can be sure that I would not hesitate to join.
The proposition offered leaves a thick distaste in my mouth because it is inferred that I do not take the sacrifices of our soldiers lightly. I have had close friends serve, and in fact die in Iraq (a precious few in America have not) and their service does not carry lightly with me in conjunction with my viewpoints. If I did not believe that the sacrifices of our military is the only thing that keeps us from much further bloodshed of not only us, but of others, I would not hold the positions I do now.
Do you know everything? do you know 3% of everything? Could it be that what you don't believe in is in the other 97%?
Sound familiar? You may have sent a PM, but this is what I'm referring to.
I wasn't referring to the troops. I was referring to young chickenhawks' motives for not having the opportunity to "die with the honor and respect of successfully serving their country", not the troops reasons for joining. I was referring to young chickenhawks cheerleading from the sidelines while young men get dismantled in Iraq, but not being willing to put their own ass on the line.I think that you mistake the motives of the majority in the military. Do they "just think selfishly about their "occupation" and their family and their security" by joining the armed forces? Because surely that is exactly their motives for doing such. Their only requirement (and I plagerize this from family members and other servicemen in Iraq) is that if they die they die with the honor and respect of successfully serving their country.
They wouldn't understand, because they're chickenhawks.
I thought you said they join out of selfish reasons, make up your mind... either they're there to improve their quality of life or they're there to fight for you...I completely grasp that those willing in Iraq right now take my place and fight for me.
Why wait for a draft? If you would not hesitate to join when you think you'll be forced to, why wait?A draft will not come; but if such a thing arose you can be sure that I would not hesitate to join.
Actions speak louder, in this case, much louder, than words.The proposition offered leaves a thick distaste in my mouth because it is inferred that I do not take the sacrifices of our soldiers lightly.
I see. So you'll even sit on your ass while your friends die in Iraq. How big of you. They still have a buddy system don't they?I have had close friends serve, and in fact die in Iraq (a precious few in America have not) and their service does not carry lightly with me in conjunction with my viewpoints.
What does that have to do with you signing up? You can hold those positions just as firmly in Fallujah, where you'll actually be doing something besides talking. It's so nice that you have that belief, but it doesn't help get a Guardsman home for the holidays.If I did not believe that the sacrifices of our military is the only thing that keeps us from much further bloodshed of not only us, but of others, I would not hold the positions I do now.
Young men and women are doing two and three tours in the Middle East and receiving stop-loss orders because young chickenhawks would rather sit home and talk about how much they respect and support the troops than be one.
I know you're just a kid, and I don't want to get into an argument where you become the focus. These are my beliefs... if you're of age and believe this "war" is a just war, if you think we're doing the right thing in Iraq and that it's good that we're there, if you say you "support the troops", then you had better be ready to suit up. You obviously believe it's ok that others fight in your place. I could never live with myself.
Last edited by scroff; 11-06-2004 at 08:40 AM.
Ancient Bush family proverb; Give a man a fish and he'll eat for a day... drown him in the lake and he'll never be hungry again.
there is no god
I would like to state here that in my original "debate" with Manny i was trying to make him see something that i had to endure during campaign visits from young republicans spouting the greatness of this particular war and a kind of double standard i raised to them being of age yet being totally unwilling to stand for their beliefs.
HOWEVER I don't want the USA to send one more person to their death..on either side. I am not ignoring the fact that Iraq happened, we made the mess we must clean it up... i am purely stating what i would like...and i would like it to stop.
I would like our government to stop using our children, our brothers and sisters, our mothers and fathers, our families and our friends as weaopns or tools to clean up after they failed to do their job properly in the first place.
I don't actually want Manny to join up and risk being killed, i was making a point...people tend to think harder and more balanced when they have something at stake personaly.
I don't accept this blanket support from the sidelines, but i do also understand why it is this way. I don't blame the "cheerleaders" for being this way, i blame society for raising them thus. But what is the alternative? do we want to end up like Japan used to be? where the men followed the Emporer blindly and it was their duty to die for him. where it was considered shame to be captured and death was the only honourable escape from that shame.
So i say that dispite my "irritation" at these "cheerleaders". i am glad they have the sense to be this way because i dred to think what America would be doing to the world if they weren't this way.
it’s an election with no Democrats, in one of the whitest states in the union, where rich candidates pay $35 for your votes. Or, as Republicans call it, their vision for the future.
The reality is that there are 138,000 or more young men and women in Iraq today. This isn't about society, or the present government, or right or wrong. It's not about serving the country. It's about the kids that are in Iraq. It's about caring enough about them to be willing to give them a break by joining up. It's about not seeing them as "troops" or "Guardsmen" or "Marines" but as kids who want to come home. This is about someone saying they support the war, but not enough to go fight it, to let someone else do it. It's about being willing to perpetuate the war effort, but not participate. It's about sharing a burden with other young kids. If there are 200,000 young chickenhawks in this country that signed up, that would be that many kids who get to come home to see their babies, their wives, husbands, mothers, fathers, who don't get a second tour, who don't get stop-loss orders, who don't get extended.
I agree with your philosophy. This is reality.
Ancient Bush family proverb; Give a man a fish and he'll eat for a day... drown him in the lake and he'll never be hungry again.
there is no god
that's why i put thisi shouldn't have to repeat all my last posts on "the reality" if i am making a point of what i "would like".
i don't want more volunteers to give the troops a break...i want the troops out of there......philosophy
we can't do that yet....reality
it’s an election with no Democrats, in one of the whitest states in the union, where rich candidates pay $35 for your votes. Or, as Republicans call it, their vision for the future.
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