Why Bush won

**Barbarossa** · 11-10-2004, 09:40 AM

Originally Posted by Busyman

Oh but then you see..we had too...er...FREE THE KUWAITI PEOPLE!!

Oh dear, we'd better go back then, last I heard was that women were still not allowed to vote, or hold political office...

**spinningfreemanny** · 11-11-2004, 07:18 AM

Originally Posted by scroff

I am a proud member of Veterans for Peace, a liberal veterans' group. While I will grant you that I have never been to Iraq, VfP has been in Iraq since 1999 working to rebuild water treatment plants. What has any conservative group done prior to Bush's illegal invasion of a soveriegn nation? (you know, those people who care so much for the Iraqis that they'll kill untold thousands of them)

Sorry; but if I become a member of a group that has helped the Iraq economy, would that make my views valid? Hell; I have given over two hundred hours of Community service to the Red Cross, who is active in Iraq...does that count? It's all subsidiary though, because I do not really care what your actions are; I accept your views, even if I disagree with them. (oh, BTW; for being such a tolerant group; why is there such a monopoly on ideas?)

I also don't agree of your poopooing of 400,000 dead... dead innocents by a dictator who would only become stronger, especially when his sadistic sons were to come to power. Again, I don't care if you disagree with my stance; but to call it invalid based on the lack of action is idiotic.

Here's the crux;
Your views of my stance is startlingly similar with my views on yours, Yet; I have not sunk to flinging the same sh*t you throw at me. Not so long ago, there was actually intelligent and insightful discussion around this board...Honestly, I actually looked forward to reading vid's posts because there was a decent chance Ild learn something. I don't know whether it is the lack of presence of j2, clocker, SJ, and others (all who I still would look to for smart posts) or what, but the dialogue on this board has quickly gone into the toilet with a few choice people leading the way. If a change is not to happen soon you will find the current trend of smart people holding insight and minority viewpoints deserting this board come full circle, quickly leaving you to blather uselessly amongst yourselves.

FYI: These sentiments are held by more then me.

**ruthie** · 11-11-2004, 07:36 AM

Originally Posted by spinningfreemanny

Sorry; but if I become a member of a group that has helped the Iraq economy, would that make my views valid? Hell; I have given over two hundred hours of Community service to the Red Cross, who is active in Iraq...does that count? It's all subsidiary though, because I do not really care what your actions are; I accept your views, even if I disagree with them. (oh, BTW; for being such a tolerant group; why is there such a monopoly on ideas?)

I also don't agree of your poopooing of 400,000 dead... dead innocents by a dictator who would only become stronger, especially when his sadistic sons were to come to power. Again, I don't care if you disagree with my stance; but to call it invalid based on the lack of action is idiotic.

Here's the crux;
Your views of my stance is startlingly similar with my views on yours, Yet; I have not sunk to flinging the same sh*t you throw at me. Not so long ago, there was actually intelligent and insightful discussion around this board...Honestly, I actually looked forward to reading vid's posts because there was a decent chance Ild learn something. I don't know whether it is the lack of presence of j2, clocker, SJ, and others (all who I still would look to for smart posts) or what, but the dialogue on this board has quickly gone into the toilet with a few choice people leading the way. If a change is not to happen soon you will find the current trend of smart people holding insight and minority viewpoints deserting this board come full circle, quickly leaving you to blather uselessly amongst yourselves.

FYI: There are others besides me who hold this similar opinion.

so I guess you don't like some of the responses you recieve.
As to 400,000 dead...we DID NOT go into Iraq because of human rights issues. That fact seems to get lost here. Did Bush make a case for that, or did he throw around talk about mushroom clouds? don't read what isn't there.

I think everyone has something to offer in terms of views and intelligent viewpoints, Manny..even you.( not said sarcastically). There are obviously strong feelings expressed in the world of politics, as was so obviously just witnessed in the campaign season, and the huge rift between right and left. You might not like how opinions are expressed, and I don't find anyone "dolling up" their presentation..and that includes you too, manny. (again...not said sarcastically)

**scroff** · 11-11-2004, 07:51 AM

Originally Posted by spinningfreemanny

Sorry; but if I become a member of a group that has helped the Iraq economy, would that make my views valid?

No more than they already are. I never said my views were more valid than yours because I was a member of VfP. You asked me if I was willing to go "ease casualty loss, rebuild Iraqi infactructure, or possibly fight the U.S. forces in Iraq?" so I told you what I do. No big deal. That remark about fighting the US forces was pretty stupid though, I must say. Just because I don't want them killing Iraqis doesn't mean I want to kill them.

... because I do not really care what your actions are; I accept your views, even if I disagree with them. (oh, BTW; for being such a tolerant group; why is there such a monopoly on ideas?)

You asked me what I was willing to do. In fact, you even spoke about "relinquishments", to which I replied that I have already done my time, and stated it was your turn. I notice you ignored that one.

BTW... What ever gave you the idea I was a member of any "tolerant group"?

I also don't agree of your poopooing of 400,000 dead... dead innocents by a dictator who would only become stronger, especially when his sadistic sons were to come to power. Again, I don't care if you disagree with my stance; but to call it invalid based on the lack of action is idiotic.

I'm not sure where you got this from. Go back and re-read my reply to you.

If it was wrong for Hussein to kill 400,000 people, what makes it right for us to kill more? I tend to agree that the lack of action on the part of the US, the UK (both of whom were bombing Iraq regularly for the last decade, under the guise of a "humanitarian crises", Hussein actually controlled only the third of Iraq around Baghdad, you know, like Rumsfeld said, north east south and west of Baghdad somewhere) and the UN was atrocious, but I don't agree that we needed to kill more.

Here's the crux;
Your views of my stance is startlingly similar with my views on yours, Yet; I have not sunk to flinging the same sh*t you throw at me.

What shit is that? Asking you if you plan to join the service of your country is giving you shit? I'm confused, Manny.

but the dialogue on this board has quickly gone into the toilet with a few choice people leading the way.

Well, then, I suggest you report them to a moderator post haste!

**Busyman** · 11-11-2004, 02:04 PM

Originally Posted by ruthie

so I guess you don't like some of the responses you recieve.
As to 400,000 dead...we DID NOT go into Iraq because of human rights issues. That fact seems to get lost here. Did Bush make a case for that, or did he throw around talk about mushroom clouds? don't read what isn't there.

I don't think manny gets it.

Manny, when you say things like "we went in to stop the killing of innocents", you sound like a Republican lapdog.

The dialogue hasn't gone down. It's just that the bullshit has gone up especially when looking in hindsight.

Step outside of what they say in your Republican youth groups.

**spinningfreemanny** · 11-11-2004, 05:31 PM

Your arguments that that was not the main reason,try as you might, does not invalidate the point.

Hell, even Kerry said knowing what he knows now, he would invade Iraq...

If you much less see another Republican youth, let me know...

**scroff** · 11-11-2004, 08:33 PM

Originally Posted by spinningfreemanny

Your arguments that that was not the main reason,try as you might, does not invalidate the point.

Hell, even Kerry said knowing what he knows now, he would invade Iraq...

If you much less see another Republican youth, let me know...

Kerry never said he would invade Iraq knowing what he knows. He said knowing what he knows he would have authorized the use of force, believing that the threat of force was necessary to negotiating with Iraq and that it was the correct authority for a president to have. He did not agree with invading Iraq before the inspectors were allowed to do thier jobs.

"Yes, I would have voted for the authority. I believe it's the right authority for a president to have. But I would have used that authority as I have said throughout this campaign, effectively. I would have done this very differently from the way President Bush has." (CNN's "Inside Politics," 8/9/04)

**Busyman** · 11-12-2004, 04:35 AM

Originally Posted by spinningfreemanny

Your arguments that that was not the main reason,try as you might, does not invalidate the point.

Uh...yes it does.

"Let's invade ruthless dictator number 15. It has to be done."

What's funny is that was Bush's only reason. Trust me, he came about with "he's ruthless dictator" after the fact.

It amazes me that certain followers think only one way and that way is as a follower.

The brain that God gave them is wasted when plain-as-day bullshit is dropped right on their face and they don't smell it.

I actually have some sort of respect (not much) for those that know it's bullshit and have some sort of agenda behind giving the bullshit a kickstand.

But others are just flat out idiot followers.