Marriage and it's supposed sanctity

[ruthie]

Easy one, JP...yes, I want the rights that come with marraige, however I would not be willing to marry if I didn't feel about my partner how I do...I am perfectly able to make that commitment between us..if I did not love him the way I do, if I did not feel that love is sacred, no rights or benefits would move me to marry.
You also assume that people that get married by a judge, a non-denominational person, etc. are more willing to break their vows. Under God, well, let's examine all the molesters the church has produced...one of them might have conducted your wedding, so that's out the window.
Good thing you aren't in charge around here. ROFL

[Rat Faced]

The mere fact that people are willing to break their "oaths" from a civil ceremony means that they do not consider them to be sacred. It is they who make that decision, not I.

You will find in my post that I referred to "I" and the religious oath which I took. Whatever other religions believe or not has nothing to do with it. I explain why the religious aspect of my marriage is sacred to me, whilst the secular part is little more than a contract. This is what informs my opinion.

Allied to comments like your own, that you are marrying for the rights which come with it. (Which I agree you shoud have anyway). How can that possibly be considered sacred. Pragmatic, indeed but not sacred.

Just as many people that get married in Church break their vows as those that are married in a civil ceremony.

I was married in the Church of Latter Day Saints as an example, due to my ex's beliefs.. a stricter "Church" would be hard to find. It was the "religious" half of the partnership that broke their vows..

Not laying any blame, any partnership is 50:50 ... however, I cant see anything special about a "Religious" ceremony over the civil.

[manker]

I think the point here is that with regard to the sacredness or sanctity of marriage, the meaning of the word when taken into context of a marriage is religeous. For these purposes sacred is not a synonym for special or precious.

If you consider your marriage vows to be sacred, even though you're not religeous then I believe you're wrong. Yes you can hold them dear and never violate them but they aren't sacred vows.

However, just because you subscribe to a different religeon to the mainstream and you have a different set of ceremonial vows, that doesn't mean your vows aren't sacred. As I said tho' the vows in a marriage between two atheists isn't sacred IMO.

Basically I'm agreeing with JP in so much as the vows in a religeous ceremony are sacred but the vows in a civil ceremony are not. However, I cannot agree that the civil vows are more likely to be broken than the religeous ones. That depends on the character of the people involved.

I can also see Ruthie's point that she considers her potential vows to be sacred because of her beliefs (I'm taking belief to mean religeon here) - that's fair enough. I'm less convinced as to the validity of the molester statement, it was totally irrelevant and akin to someone casually slipping a pedophile comment into a discussion about gay rights. Does that strike a chord, Ruthie.

[vidcc]

Sacred isn't purely a religious term no matter how those that have religion wish it were because that was the roots of the word in the beginning, just a "gay" doesn't just mean happy anymore.

The arguements over the usage of a word that some wish to be exclusive have hijacked the point of the thread. So i shall make it clear that it is about taking marriage seriously (sacred to what one thinks a marriage is......and that is the correct usage)

Is getting married because of an unexpected pregnancy taking MARRIAGE seriously or is it demeaning the marriage if that's the only reason it was entered into?
that is just one example...someone said about getting married early because they couldn't wait any longer to have sex.



What are the reasons YOU consider trivialise marriage

[manker]

Vid,

You asked 'what is the sanctity of marriage.' The posts relating to the sacredness (or not) of marriage vows appertain to that. It is not off-topic. If you believe that this has detracted from the issue you wished to discuss then you should have constructed the original post to reflect this.

Also to assert that only religeous folk wish (or believe) that sacredness relates to religion in the context of marriage is nonsense. It's pure linguistics.

Edit: I'm not religeous, btw.

[vidcc]

manker


the original post talked about the whole concept of taking marriage lightly and it has turned into nothing but a debate about the use of a word to describe the vows...not the marriage...that is why i made a post to try to get away from that.

We have a big thing here (the USA) about family values etc..... well are those values served by encouraging flippent reasons to marry?.... this is another reason for the thread. it appears some haven't taken up that reason so i am clearing it up.

I have said before that if anyone misunderstands my posts i will glady rephrase for them.that is what i have done

What is the sanctity of marriage?

On a thread in the lounge the subject was rasied because of a pregnancy out of wedlock.

But is that a reason for marriage?

you see there was more than just the question of what is the sanctity of marriage.

[vidcc]

But a civil marriage can be sacred to the non believer if they take that marriage as being so. As i said it doesn't have to be religious to be sacred to the party concerned.

As an Athiest i could argue that if it can only be a sacred vow if made to God then that vow is meaningless as God doesn't exist and therefore the term sacred used in such a way is meaningless.

But yet again i would like to point out that the thread is about the seriousness with which people view marriage and reasons for marriage, not about vows

[Rat Faced]

Sacred:

Definition:
[adj] (often followed by `to') devoted exclusively to a single use or purpose or person; "a fund sacred to charity"; "a morning hour sacred to study"; "a private office sacred to the President"
[adj] made or declared or believed to be holy; devoted to a deity or some religious ceremony or use; "a consecrated chursh"; "the sacred mosque"; "sacred elephants"; "sacred bread and wine"; "sanctified wine"
[adj] worthy of religious veneration; "the sacred name of Jesus"; "Jerusalem's hallowed soil"
[adj] concerned with religion or religious purposes; "sacred texts"; "sacred rites"; "sacred music"
[adj] worthy of respect or dedication; "saw motherhood as woman's sacred calling"


Sacred is not a purely religious word, and is quite capable of being used to describe a Marriage without any religious overtones...

To me, Marriage is Sacred... however following the above definition, so is any relationship.

[Rat Faced]

It takes 2 to Tango...

If one wants a divorce, then it doesnt matter how sacred the other holds their vows.. they will get divorced.

[manker]

Sacred:

Definition:
[adj] (often followed by `to') devoted exclusively to a single use or purpose or person; "a fund sacred to charity"; "a morning hour sacred to study"; "a private office sacred to the President"
[adj] made or declared or believed to be holy; devoted to a deity or some religious ceremony or use; "a consecrated chursh"; "the sacred mosque"; "sacred elephants"; "sacred bread and wine"; "sanctified wine"
[adj] worthy of religious veneration; "the sacred name of Jesus"; "Jerusalem's hallowed soil"
[adj] concerned with religion or religious purposes; "sacred texts"; "sacred rites"; "sacred music"
[adj] worthy of respect or dedication; "saw motherhood as woman's sacred calling"


Sacred is not a purely religious word, and is quite capable of being used to describe a Marriage without any religious overtones...

To me, Marriage is Sacred... however following the above definition, so is any relationship.

I agree that sacred is not a purely religeous word, if you read my posts you'll see that I said it was so only in this marital context. As you've rightly pointed out, sacred is "devoted exclusively" and "worthy of respect or dedication".

This cannot be the case if the vows are deemed by the partakers of the vows to be breakable. They are not devoted exclusively to the vows as they do not preclude the possiblity of a forsaking them.

Since religeous folk, such as JP, preclude ever not being bound by these vows, he considers them sacred. Since (for example, my Mam and Dad) acknowledge that should they divorce then they will be free of the obligations of the vows they took, then to them the vows are not sacred.

That is the distinction. That's why - taking any definition of sacred - I'm saying that a sacred marriage vow has to be a religeous one.