nazis... love'em or hate em'

[manker]

Obviously a theoretical (sp?) question but one could argue that, perhaps, USA would not have wanted to fight a war in Europe as well as the Pacific if Germany hadn't of declared war first. Though please correct me if my history is wrong on this.

At the very least, it would have made USA think twice before embarking on a European campaign...

I think that the US would have entered the European front only marginally later if Germany hadn't declared war upon the US when it did. Hitler's world domination plans were already causing restlessness among the US contingent plus there must have been intelligence concerning the capabilities of transatlantic weaponry being developed; passed accross from our (the UK's) investigations as well as their own.

It would make no sense for Germany to declare war on Japan at that time. Germany's declaration on the US was in keeping with the Tripartite Agreement between themselves, Japan and Italy. To renege on that would have isolated Germany at a time where they were much in need of Japan's military might.

[Snee]

I still say that some tactics employed by Germany didn't make that much sense*. So while it wouldn't have made sense, it might have been possible if Hitler had been just a little nuttier.

*Invading russia, for instance, that wasn't the brightest move ever. Others tried and failed long before that, and fell to the same kind of tactics that in the end prevented Germany from taking over the place.

They should have dug down and beefed up their defenses on the russian front, not tried to attack.

[manker]

I still say that some tactics employed by Germany didn't make that much sense*. So while it wouldn't have made sense, it might have been possible if Hitler had been just a little nuttier.

*Invading russia, for instance, that wasn't the brightest move ever. Others tried and failed long before that, and fell to the same kind of tactics that in the end prevented Germany from taking over the place.

They should have dug down and beefed up their defenses on the russian front, not tried to attack.

I think the German top brass began starting to believe their own propaganda. I'm not sure exactly how nutty Hitler was but he was an excellent leader and had some of the best military strategists in history making decisions for him.

When they invaded Russia they had already secured all of Western Europe, save the UK. The US were dithering so if their world domination plans were to be sorted then they needed to get into Russia. To invade the UK first would have caused an unecessary delay and wouldn't open any other doors for further conquest, so Russia it was. Lucky for us, really.

Pearl Harbor fecked their timescale up, who knows what would have happened if that event hadn't accelerated matters. They were forced into declaring war on the US, citing reasons half heartedly. Once the US opened a front in Europe and their forces had to be split, it was just a matter of time.

[Snee]

According to many he was a psychopath, and as I said also believed to be schizophrenic, it's true that he at times excelled, and that he had brilliant advisors, but he was also paranoid, and unstable, and some of his ideas didn't make much sense.

As to invading Russia- pretty much the same thing had been attempted at least once, quite possibly twice, once by one of our kings.

All the Russians had to do was to do the same thing they did then, retreat as far as they could go, and torch everything behind them. Modern technology at the time wasn't advanced enough to give the germans enough edge over those who tried it previously, and the generals in command as well as hitler should have been well aware of this fact.

The logistics were more or less impossible to deal with when the winter came.

[manker]

Yup, I agree. I don't know much about your lot invading them but what Germany planned was an example of them believing they were superior - essentially following the nazi ideology - how could Russians possibly beat Germans.

As it was the Red Army was severely under-equipped and would be completely surprised due to their own non-agression treaty. The Germans knew this and believed they could overrun Moscow by Christmas. What had gone before in the war - penetrating the 'impregnable' Maginot Line and completely decimating the forces of neighbouring Countries - made them supremely over confident.

However, as I say. The outcome may have been different had events not taken the turn they did when Japan attacked the US.

[Snee]

I think I had ancestors in that earlier war.

Thanks to the wonders of monarchy, distant relations of mine have died prematurely all over the place. :glare:

I think our other contender might have been Napoleon.



Overconfidence in a situation like that pretty much equals stupidity. If they hadn't been pushed on by fear of Hitler his generals would probably have avoided the thing.

As for the schedule being altered, it's true that things might have worked better if they had had the chance to invade earlier, but there was a lot of surface to cover and still a problem with logistics.

They might have owned the UK tho'.

[manker]

They might have owned the UK tho'.

Oh yes.

[Snee]

I wonder what had happened to the welsh then.


Would you have been fritz manker today, perhaps. Or maybe they wouldn't have gotten all of the UK, or the US might still have liberated you, maybe.

[manker]

I wonder what had happened to the welsh then.


Would you have been fritz manker today, perhaps. Or maybe they wouldn't have gotten all of the UK, or the US might still have liberated you, maybe.

The Romans didn't conquer us so I reckon we'd have been OK.

My family might have had to move to Dyfed tho' so you wouldn't have seen much of me online as I'd have been out torching English holiday-maker's summer residences, and the like

[Snee]

Yes, but would the romans have conquered you if they had had Tiger Tanks?