Microsoft Accepts EU Decision

[Busyman]

I'd like it if you had a bunch of DVDs with all the extras on so that you didn't have to install all the crap - yes, I'm talking about WMP and IE too because I think they should be non-essential and uninstallable.

Well.....that's an entirely different remedy now isn't it?

[manker]

Well.....that's an entirely different remedy now isn't it?

To what. That's the first time I'd posted a remedy as I was promted by SnnY. I've stated my intention in the thread:

You said you don't want to pay - I showed you that you don't need to, you said you don't see how it benefits the consumer if WMP wasn't bundled, I've shown you how through simple economics. That's basically all I wanted to do, I'm not bothered about the EU - tbh I have little time for them.

To which you come up with bollocks like MS opening their source code.

There are lots of legal issues which I can't pretend to understand but in a perfect world I would like software companies to compete on an equal footing, to benefit the consumer.

[sArA]

The train of thought is the same behind the McDonald's lawsuits.
If the consumer doesn't want to look for other products that is the consumer's fault. If a competitor doesn't market to that consumer that is the competitions fault.

If the consumer doesn't sift through the garbage to find that snazzy new product, how the hell is that MS's fault?

Think of it this way.......

Person 1 has been using WMP for years, they then find that through this lawsuit to help the consumer that there were other products out there.

How does person 1 blame MS for not using something else?

I agree, the consumer is culpable in their laziness. However, just because someone doesn't actively seek something, doesn't mean that they should not have the choice. You could apply this to any 'thing' you could mention, different types of shoes, cookers, cups.

By agressively seeking to close off a market to competition an organisation is no longer considering 'product' 'service' 'quality' etc, it is merely profiteering. .

How many media players are out there?
How many antivirus programs do people know about? The market leader is Norton. I say blame Norton for this. They do market to the consumer, the consumer knows about them.

The consumer is so smart that if grandma saw a commercial for a rival media program....she just might buy it in lieu of the resident WMP.


Not if she already had one she was familiar with that came bundled together in one neat OS package...oh...which actually happens to have the single biggest market share in the world.

You said monopolies give the consumer no choice. Guess what? You are referring to media players which are ubiquitous. The rest is marketing.

I don't see that to be the point...there will always be differences, just as each car manufacturer makes differnt cars. They all however, make cars which are ubiquitous .

If any government had real balls they would address the real monopoly and that's OS itself...not the extras.

I agree entirely

But you really don't want 5 OS's to choose from, now do you?

Why not? I have substantially more cars to choose from

[Busyman]

To what. That's the first time I'd posted a remedy as I was promted by SnnY. I've stated my intention in the thread:

To which you come up with bollocks like MS opening their source code.

There are lots of legal issues which I can't pretend to understand but in a perfect world I would like software companies to compete on an equal footing, to benefit the consumer.

I never came up with the source code thingie. It's been on the table on both sides of the Atlantic bubba.

I've stated that the EU's remedy is bullshit and goes too far. The remedy that I proposed, and you second, makes more logical sense in the scheme.

[Busyman]

Why not? I have substantially more cars to choose from

Yup, remember OS2/Warp?

The rest of what you summed up isn't true. Consumers do have a choice as far as the extras.

You said it yourself....

I agree, the consumer is culpable in their laziness. However, just because someone doesn't actively seek something, doesn't mean that they should not have the choice.

The last sentence doesn't jibe though.

Again that ranges from consumer search to competitor marketing.

Can you blame Norton because they are the market leader in antivirus software? Many say they don't have the best product.

I remember the same with the Iomega Zip drives. They clearly weren't best but sold the most at that time.

[sArA]

I was not at any point ascribing blame....merely pointing out that monopolies are a bad thing and shouldn't be allowed.

Not allowing it to continue is the point. Making changes for the better.

An organisation cannot really be blamed for attempting monopoly as the driving force behind the market is to increase profits and market share. It is therefore inevitable that sometimes monopolies will emerge. This does not however mean that because they emerge, they should be allowed to continue in their market dominance un-challenged.

It could be argued that challenges such as the EU descision are just examples of competitive forces being exerted in different ways, and will ultimately open up the market. This may also have the effect of keeping microsoft on its toes in much the same way a realistic main competitor would in a less monopolistic environment.

[Busyman]

I was not at any point ascribing blame....merely pointing out that monopolies are a bad thing and shouldn't be allowed.

Not allowing it to continue is the point. Making changes for the better.

An organisation cannot really be blamed for attempting monopoly as the driving force behind the market is to increase profits and market share. It is therefore inevitable that sometimes monopolies will emerge. This does not however mean that because they emerge, they should be allowed to continue in their market dominance un-challenged.

It could be argued that challenges such as the EU descision are just examples of competitive forces being exerted in different ways, and will ultimately open up the market. This may also have the effect of keeping microsoft on its toes in much the same way a realistic main competitor would in a less monopolistic environment.

Yes but the very monopoly that the EU say exists, doesn't have the appropriate remedy.

The EU is blowing smoke about a media player when it's the OS that's the monopoly.

To further that, the claim that MS is using the OS monopoly to affect the media player market is small time.

If that's the case, the EU should strip Windows to the core.

Either the EU is half-steppin or applying inappropriate bullshit remedies.

If the issue is the media player, compel Windows to have an uninstall routine for it and still disclose the API's (which do give an advantage).

I know about monopolies since I work for Verizon formerly Bell Atlantic formerly C&P Telephone (when I came to the company) formerly AT&T.

How many phone companies are offered to you btw?

[Cheese]

It'll benefit the consumer because wmp is a piece of shit. I wouldn't run my dodgy german porn on that crap software.

Well done EU, one in the nuts for Bill Gates.

[Busyman]

It'll benefit the consumer because wmp is a piece of shit. I wouldn't run my dodgy german porn on that crap software.

Well done EU, one in the nuts for Bill Gates.

Well don't use it.

Better yet don't use Windows, and get off Bill Gates' nuts since that's what he actually makes money from.

[Cheese]

Well don't use it.

Better yet don't use Windows, and get off Bill Gates' nuts since that's what he actually makes money from.

I don't use it so what's your point?

Maybe you should try out some of the options, I know it can be a little frightening but there are better media players out there to use you don't have to use what Bill tells you to.

Try these links:

http://www.winamp.com/player/

http://www.bsplayer.org/

http://www.divx-digest.com/software/...r_classic.html

These are just my personal choices I'm sure others can add to the list. Try each one out see if you like them.

You can go here for a nice little bundle pack of all sorts of media players/codecs/etc. If you have trouble installing them feel free to PM me.


Next week we'll teach you how to change your screensaver.