Microsoft Accepts EU Decision

[4play]

xp is a bloody good operating system for home users no matter what anyone says. the only mistake microsoft made was intergrating internet explorer into the os.

if they cut windows down to the core and just have the kernel and the window manager it would be completly useless for what it is designed for and that is for home users. imagine lusers having to figure out where to get a video player from let alone defragger, antivirus and everything else.

a suitable compromise would be having windows media player/internet explorer as an option to install with the os. they would not be forcing it on anyone like now and if they really are as bad as people say they can leave them out.

Opening up a few of the api's for xp and the upcoming longhorn to allow 3rd party applications to really use the inbuilt functions of the operating system would be a massive step forward in making it a more level playing field for everyone.

the nt kernel is pretty bulky since it has to support alot of hardware. a bit like standard linux kernels you get with distributions. they are designed to support everything so they will install on a wide range of machines. but with linux you can compile your own leaving out the modules you dont need. until the nt kernel is open source you will never be able to do this. thats why it has such a large memory footprint.

[Busyman]

xp is a bloody good operating system for home users no matter what anyone says. the only mistake microsoft made was intergrating internet explorer into the os.

if they cut windows down to the core and just have the kernel and the window manager it would be completly useless for what it is designed for and that is for home users. imagine lusers having to figure out where to get a video player from let alone defragger, antivirus and everything else.

a suitable compromise would be having windows media player/internet explorer as an option to install with the os. they would not be forcing it on anyone like now and if they really are as bad as people say they can leave them out.

Opening up a few of the api's for xp and the upcoming longhorn to allow 3rd party applications to really use the inbuilt functions of the operating system would be a massive step forward in making it a more level playing field for everyone.

the nt kernel is pretty bulky since it has to support alot of hardware. a bit like standard linux kernels you get with distributions. they are designed to support everything so they will install on a wide range of machines. but with linux you can compile your own leaving out the modules you dont need. until the nt kernel is open source you will never be able to do this. thats why it has such a large memory footprint.

A simple, suitable compromise is to allow an uninstall of IE, and WMP. Grandma won't have to figure out where to get it because it's there. If she doesn't like it, simply remove it.

It's funny you mentioned those 2 which are exactly what competitors, not consumers, were crying about.

Face it. Most folk who complain about IE are not the average user. The main complaint would be the active x security holes.

[lynx]

Face it. Most folk who complain about IE are not the average user. The main complaint would be the active x security holes.

I agree to some extent, but let's not forget that most users don't know how to plug the gaping security holes either. The result is that they end up with infected systems which push out more crap onto the internet, slowing the whole thing down and unknowingly presenting other users (including us) with spam, viruses, spyware etc.

Eventually as their own PCs grind to a halt, they realise something is seriously wrong, and usually either have to spend yet more money having their system cleaned up, or if they invested in a total care package at the start the people who sold them the system have to clean it up - the vendors are the people who don't want the bundling, not just the competitors.

If the system wasn't such a security nightmare because of all the integration this wouldn't happen. Bug ridden Microsoft crap wouldn't get installed in the first place if vendors were allowed to bundle better products. This in turn might just give Microsoft an incentive to sort the problem out, their current half-baked attempts just don't cut it.

[clocker]

another problem the eu had with microsoft was that it was telling pc retailers that they where not allowed to include certain competing products with windows(realplayer is a known product). this is a bit like buying your cooker and being told oh yeah you cant buy baked beans from heinz with this cooker but you can have this other brand.

Not exactly an accurate comparison.
In our case the cooker doesn't come with Heinz beans, but we are free to use them post-purchase.
If I don't care for the beans included with the purchase I am free to donate them to the Goodwill.
How am I injured here?

Bug ridden Microsoft crap wouldn't get installed in the first place if vendors were allowed to bundle better products. This in turn might just give Microsoft an incentive to sort the problem out, their current half-baked attempts just don't cut it.

Anyone who has ever watched a brand new HP/Compaq PC boot up and load up all the crap that they add with the OS can't help but wonder exactly which vendors you think will be bundling in all the superior software you speak of.
Why the assumption that a 3rd party media player/browser will automatically be superior to that which MS offers?

[j2k4]

I find it interesting, when Microsoft's strategy (as well as the competition's) is quite rightfully geared toward the bottom line (it's just normal business, right?), that there are, on an absolute level, competitive, and in several cases, superior programs available for absolutely nothing.

Linux, Firefox/Thunderbird, Adaware, Spybot, AIDA, OpenOffice (I think)...

Amazing.

[4play]

Not exactly an accurate comparison.
In our case the cooker doesn't come with Heinz beans, but we are free to use them post-purchase.
If I don't care for the beans included with the purchase I am free to donate them to the Goodwill.
How am I injured here?

how can you donate wmp or internet explorer (products you have purchased) to goodwill?

there may not be superior products its all personal preference but telling people real player cannot be included with windows is downright illegal. microsoft deserve to be punished for this activity.

This may be a bit like charging al capone(a murderer) with tax evasion but at the end of the day they get what they deserve.

[UKResident]

Why should Windows have third party software bundled with it? What other industry is forced to do that? There is nothing to stop any computer company including as many CDs containing 3rd party apps as they wish. The problem was with the configuration of Windows on these machines, which Microsoft insisted should be clean, and why not?

[4play]

Why should Windows have third party software bundled with it? What other industry is forced to do that? There is nothing to stop any computer company including as many CDs containing 3rd party apps as they wish. The problem was with the configuration of Windows on these machines, which Microsoft insisted should be clean, and why not?

sorry mate you lost me a bit there.

microsoft insisted that real player or certain other competing products would not be included with any machine sold with windows on. if they bundled the cds with it you would be punished by being charged full price for windows.

microsoft have abused their position as a monopoly in the desktop market and are now being punished for it.

[UKResident]

Well my understanding was they didn't want other software loaded up on the machines, just the bare Windows. This was in relation to pre-loaded Windows, not sticking a Windows CD into the box. How can they insist on no other CDs being in the box?

[4play]

How can they insist on no other CDs being in the box?

they can insist on other cds that they dont want being shipped with windows because they are microsoft and if you screw with them they will put you out of business.