Changing The Way The World Works.

[j2k4]

Wish granted; I will not quote you.
I will go at this piecemeal because it's late and I don't know if I'll finish answering before I have to move on to other things.

I believe in MY God. I, like you, thought for years that I was agnostic but managed to think the 10 Commandments were a good set of guidelines. I have not practiced my Christian religion since I was confirmed, etc., but I got to a point in my life when I just got tired of arguing with myself over actualities-I decided I would practice within myself, get what I need from it, and give what I can to it, on my own. 'Nuff said.

You seem to have your shit together on a lot of fronts; I like the way you use reason. I can live with the disagreements and still enjoy the give and take, because that's the way I look at all of it-not a fight, by any means. I have to admit I do occasionally enjoy taking a chunk out of someone here, but only if they deserve it, and only if they ask for it. This forum is like everything else to me; put something worthwhile in, get something of value out.

Back to religion for a sec-even if it IS just a comforting "nonreality" to someone, it's proving it's worth.
You seem to be on the same track I was on: living in "just in case" mode. I hope it leads you to where I am-I think it would work for you.

And I agree about my eagle. I'm looking for an appropriate replacement, but don't know which way I want to go yet.

Good chat.

[Z]

Originally posted by hobbes@2 April 2003 - 19:17
J2k4,

You believe in God ( the Christian one or some other religion), a god (a creator who has yet to be accurately described by any specific religion) or the possibilty of a creator?

I will just give you my spin factors:

1) I would love for there to be a God.

2) I am agnostic, I believe that religions are created by men, who then create their version of God. I firmly believe that organized religions are fairy tales, but I still cannot disprove the existence of a creator. So I look, listen, learn and hope to find a solution where I can find peace. I really envy those who are pure in their beliefs, I would pay any amount of money to truely believe that eternal happiness was awaiting me after physical death. Sometimes it's good to have Down's syndrome.

3) I live my life doing unto others and so on, assuming that any god will see that I am a person of integrity who respects and values the lives and needs of others.

I understand the role of Religion because it provides hope to the hopeless. A salvation in a world which is quite cruel.

I, fortunately, am doing ok. I know this because I can get pissed (mad not drunk) about my hometeam losing a baseball game, as if that was important or something.


Can I give some constructive criticism? Eagle is too big, can't that be your avatar? I am a proud American, too. Quoting prior posts is not always necessary. People who don't read through posts to understand what you are referencing are usually not worth listening to.

Please feel free to give me any constructive feedback, I am not easily offended.

i agree to an extent. religion gives hope and belief, but its something that cannot be backed up anyways.
why wouldnt u want to believe in something that can be proven, like natural science? doesnt the existence of god contradict all the theories of physics and such? evolution, no? does prayer help in life, or is it a waste of time? i think its useless. i read a quote in the garbage post by masta yodax "i realized i was god when i was praying and then realized i was talking to myself." its funny.

also , do u believe in predeterminism? this was also in philosophy class. huge debates, cuz u can make choices, but are those choices your fate? ok, does god determine what u do? come on now, everybody has a mind of their own.

prayer gives hope, but is it useful? its it worth the time and energy to put hope and belief into god? or should we spend more time on the things that have a direct influence on our lives, like our actual lives?!!
i think the latter should work!

[WeeMouse]

[QUOTE]Can you capsulize it for us, WeeMouse? [QUOTE]

Well I haven't fininshed it, but It seems good!


It's by Mike Moore, and is his opinion on America basically - how George W Bush got "elected", racism and stuff like that.

Being Scottish, i don't know how accurate his claims about some things are true.

He does write a good chapter on Catholics and protestants in N. Ireland though!

[j2k4]

Z-
At the point science and religion seem irrevocably divergent, a little thing called faith can bring things back into sync-I'm afraid I don't have an argument to support my contention. What I have instead is........faith.

[j2k4]

Originally posted by WeeMouse@3 April 2003 - 12:45

It's by Mike Moore, and is his opinion on America basically - how George W Bush got "elected", racism and stuff like that.

This alone would rescind any claim to legitimacy, though it may have entertainment value for some.

[Z]

Originally posted by j2k4@3 April 2003 - 12:03
Z-
At the point science and religion seem irrevocably divergent, a little thing called faith can bring things back into sync-I'm afraid I don't have an argument to support my contention. What I have instead is........faith.

good for u. many people do, and im not against it. but based on previous conversation with you, i would think u would be [intelligent] enough to base your beliefs on something more concrete. im not sayin people are idiots, im just saying i thought u seemed like a person with common sense and believed in more moderm, provable ideas that are inevitably more useful. i dunno...

[insanebassman]

Hobbes- You seem to be wollowing in a sea of doubt and cynisism, and for that you have my sympathy. You have good ideas but you also seem to have a number of preconceptions. Just observation, I could be wrong, but I am simply interpreting your responses and statements for myself.

As far as god goes, I would look to my intellectual superiors... such as Steven Hawkings... his theories seem to point towards a creative force using Science. I myself, being somewhat pagan, beleive in many gods. Some are benign, others are violent. Many are upset forces claiming to be a god but are simply a bitter mealevolent presence. Even the ten commandments say thou shalt have no other gods before me. This leads me to conclude there are other gods, just do not worship if you want to follow that one...

That being said, I worship nothing but beleive in some weird shit.

Faith fails me and it is what I have seen and experienced that leads me to beleif. Read the "Univers in a Nutshell" or "The book of Nothing" for some insight into that... I will browse the book list at the beginning of this post to see what I have and have not read later. Ignore me or discount me if you will, but a long list of book does not tell me what you think. So I skipped it. A long list of books tells me you are looking for something to think.

[fallenknight308]

Not going to even touch this
This conversation has been around since......since............well, since before any of us were born! B)

[j2k4]

Originally posted by Z+5 April 2003 - 02:14--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Z @ 5 April 2003 - 02:14)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--j2k4@3 April 2003 - 12:03
Z-
At the point science and religion seem irrevocably divergent, a little thing called faith can bring things back into sync-I&#39;m afraid I don&#39;t have an argument to support my contention. What I have instead is........faith.

good for u. many people do, and im not against it. but based on previous conversation with you, i would think u would be [intelligent] enough to base your beliefs on something more concrete. im not sayin people are idiots, im just saying i thought u seemed like a person with common sense and believed in more moderm, provable ideas that are inevitably more useful. i dunno... [/b][/quote]
I AM intelligent enough, Z-so much so, in fact, that I have found a way to resolve what you see as conflict, and as a consequence, enjoy both. You may not see any reason for doing it-but I do. By way of explanation, if you are demanding same, suffice it to say I ignore any conflict or overlap; I simply "buy" both sides of that coin. I would say, "I baked the cake, therefore I have it; if I desire to partake of it, then I shall."

I don&#39;t expect you to get it, necessarily, but there it is.

[Z]

okay then.