Patriotism = Parochialism

[Busyman]

Surely if you eliminate laws then the crime rate would immediately reduce to zero...

Good point.

Ok let's change crime to simply bad shit.

[Busyman]

well lets look at this theory directly here

this man believes in god and he knew the camera was on him when he did the initial deed.

every day believers commit crime and god is no deterrent....why? ... because they believe god will forgive them. So I say having religion is just as likely to make things bad.....just look at where this religious world is today.

Atheism is about not believing in god. It is not about thinking crime is "ok" because it will go unpunished.

Uh dude...you ever thought that he was just a nutcase?

If he wasn't religious, it could have been anything else.

this man believes in god and he knew the camera was on him when he did the initial deed.

No shit.............

Now if you knew someone was watching and believed those things and still didn't care then you'd still break the law.

So predictable. I'm surprised you didn't bring up the guy who killed seven people in a church.

[vidcc]

if you wish to say that having no god will make the world worse then you have to accept that there is a valid opposite.

If you wish to say that having god in the world makes things better then you can't dismiss those that do bad things when they have faith as just being nutters.

You can't have your cake and eat it.

I put that example up for a reason and I even pointed out the reason I did.

every day believers commit crime and god is no deterrent....why? ... because they believe god will forgive them. So I say having religion is just as likely to make things bad.....just look at where this religious world is today.

This man had religion in his life, does he think he will burn in hell? no...because he messed up and looks now to god for forgiveness and knowing that he is sorry for what he did he knows he will be forgiven.
Pity he didn't look to god before he did it, but then the end result for him is the same as far as "the afterlife" is concerned.

So don't tell me that the world would be worse without god and expect me to ignore REAL cases in REAL life that go against your "theory"

[Busyman]

if you wish to say that having no god will make the world worse then you have to accept that there is a valid opposite.

If you wish to say that having god in the world makes things better then you can't dismiss those that do bad things when they have faith as just being nutters.

You can't have your cake and eat it.

I put that example up for a reason and I even pointed out the reason I did.



This man had religion in his life, does he think he will burn in hell? no...because he messed up and looks now to god for forgiveness and knowing that he is sorry for what he did he knows he will be forgiven.
Pity he didn't look to god before he did it, but then the end result for him is the same as far as "the afterlife" is concerned.

So don't tell me that the world would be worse without god and expect me to ignore REAL cases in REAL life that go against your "theory"

People hope they will be forgiven. If everyone believed what you say then they would believe they absolutely wouldn't go to hell ever.

Very funny that you bring up a nutjob to prove your point which actually detracts from it.

I don't believe your "opposite" because man is too primal.
It takes less effort to take than to give. Just because you may think that being kind to another will get what you want doesn't mean the masses will.

There are many things that an atheist may not find immoral that most religions do.
Prostitution, drug use, premarital sex, drunkeness, womanizing, etc.
As long as it's not hurting anybody..right?

btw no one dismisses the bad things that people do while professing God.

People fuck up. I say there will be more fuck ups otherwise.
People lose sight of God just like they do with man's law.

I can't tell how many times I've heard a quote like "an eye for an eye" when justifying revenge but they never read on to the "turn the other cheek" part.

[vidcc]

Very funny that you bring up a nutjob to prove your point which actually detracts from it.

btw no one dismisses the bad things that people do while professing God.

There are many things that an atheist may not find immoral that most religions do.
Prostitution, drug use, premarital sex, drunkeness, womanizing, etc.
As long as it's not hurting anybody..right?

Just how is that making the world worse?.....
I would never visit a prostitute, I bet many of faith have though.

I have never used "drugs"...I bet a fair few people of faith have.....

premarital sex? WTF?????????

GTFO STFU

Drunkeness...I am teetotal but have nothing against booze

Womanising..... I refer to the famous "I have sinned" preacher...remember those tears?

I am a non believer yet I don't approve of your examples, with the exception of sex before marriage and a single man can chase as many single women as he likes. And seeing as those things wouldn't "destroy civilisation" ..... just what is the validity of your point?

[bigboab]

It has been said in this thread many times. It is up to each individual as to what they want to believe or dont want not to believe. Live and let live.

The one thing I have issue with are people coming to my front door expounding their particular religion. I dont go to their place of worship and tell them I think 'The king has no clothes'. It is even worse when you are half way through 'setting up' a DVD Recorder and you have to start from scratch again.

[Busyman]

Just how is that making the world worse?.....
I would never visit a prostitute, I bet many of faith have though.

I have never used "drugs"...I bet a fair few people of faith have.....

premarital sex? WTF?????????

Drunkeness...I am teetotal but have nothing against booze

Womanising..... I refer to the famous "I have sinned" preacher...remember those tears?

I am a non believer yet I don't approve of your examples, with the exception of sex before marriage and a single man can chase as many single women as he likes. And seeing as those things wouldn't "destroy civilisation" ..... just what is the validity of your point?

...oh just something I pointed out...you know....the premarital sex and all and what not.

Regarding your first quotes of yourself and I, your right....I don't dismiss it. Other's don't either. I think that's how it makes the news and stuff.

[vidcc]

...oh just something I pointed out...you know....the premarital sex and all and what not.

How do you explain that your examples are not all moral values for all religions? Some religions have drugs as part of their ceremonies.

But then seeing as "moral values" in regard to religion are based on man made ideas anyway what makes you think that they wouldn't be taken up if religion didn't exist?

Regarding your first quotes of yourself and I, your right....I don't dismiss it. Other's don't either. I think that's how it makes the news and stuff.

Perhaps you think I mean the crime is dismissed.

I am talking about dismissing the connection with the criminal having religion.

The BTK killer was a church leader...... this fact was considered irrelevant and he "hijacked" religion as a cover. Tell me that the same people that say that would be so dismissive if he had a house full of porn or a collection of "texas chainsaw massacre" type movies.

[Busyman]

How do you explain that your examples are not all moral values for all religions? Some religions have drugs as part of their ceremonies.

But then seeing as "moral values" in regard to religion are based on man made ideas anyway what makes you think that they wouldn't be taken up if religion didn't exist?




Perhaps you think I mean the crime is dismissed.

I am talking about dismissing the connection with the criminal having religion.

The BTK killer was a church leader...... this fact was considered irrelevant and he "hijacked" religion as a cover. Tell me that the same people that say that would not be so dismissive if he had a house full of porn or a collection of "texas chainsaw massacre" type movies.

Wow..

It sounds to me you're saying that because the BTK killer "hijacked" religion as a cover that the world would be better without religion.

[Busyman]

I don't do that, I never have and I never will.

Me Mam used to keep pamphlets by the door. When anyone came and offered her some she would say that of course she would take it, they could also take one of hers.

They didn't expect that.

That's pretty slick. I like that.

When Jehovah's Witnesses came to my door, on occasion I'd let them in and we'd have talk.

I wanted to know what they believed and the subtle nuances of their religion.