Patriotism = Parochialism

[vidcc]

Wow..

It sounds to me you're saying that because the BTK killer "hijacked" religion as a cover that the world would be better without religion.

No i am saying that when questioned on the subject of him being a church leader people of faith say he hijacked it as a cover.

In other words they are saying his crimes couldn't possibly have anything to do with faith...... = dismissing any connection.


I am saying religion doesn't = morality adn Atheism doesn't = immorality

[bigboab]

I don't do that, I never have and I never will.

Me Mam used to keep pamphlets by the door. When anyone came and offered her some she would say that of course she would take it, they could also take one of hers.

They didn't expect that.

I will give that a try JP. Just for the look on their faces.

[bigboab]

You could adapt the theme, make it something interesting.

Your DVD set-up instruction might be a good thing.

Copies obviously.

I'll have to go out to the wheelie bin to get it so I can make copies.

[bigboab]

Anything would do.

Does Mrs bigboab have a knitting pattern.

Yes.

A stitch like nine, saves time.

[hobbes]

Hobbes

"Answering to oneself is the highest authority as God is a myth."

I would venture that for someone to post this they would be an Atheist, not Agnostic. Or have I missed the meaning.

If I was brainwashed then I would believe exactly the same as my parents did, I do not. I have spoken to many people, read thing and made my own decisions on what I believe to be the truth.

God, as described by organized relgions is a myth, of this I have no doubt. God,as an unknowable creator, could exist because, as I have explained before, there is just so much around us that looks planned and science really is quite deficient is explaining such things currently.

I think that if God exists, he is not personal, he just got the ball rolling. He didn't write a book and he doesn't talk through prophets. I didn't wake up one day an agnostic, I kind of wandered my way there as I thought about the various religions and I discarded them reluctantly. Hobbes wants to go to heaven, too.

Agnosticism is basically where I got stranded. I don't recruit people to my "church" because it sucks. I could never by in to religion despite spending 5 summers at a fundament Christian camp. These people really lived the life and I had a great time. But still, you know that private place inside you where you admit fears and doubts, I could never go there and state that I believed in Jesus. But I could go there and say "I have no fear of punishment from God".

Since I think that God is unknowable, then I must be my own highest authority and conduct myself in a way which makes me proud of myself. Don't always do it, but I am just an animal.

I think it would be a fair statement to say that men are attracted to women, as a rule. Just like Catholics beget Catholics and Jews beget Jews, this is a generally fair statement as well.

We do know, however, that some men like other men. That is unusual but real. Just like your process in becoming a Catholic may be an exception to a perfectly valid rule. I certainly would not say that you are average and a good example of the typical religious person.

The world has lots of sheep and just a few shepards. I was giving the general rule I have observed for sheep.

[Busyman]

I am saying religion doesn't = morality adn Atheism doesn't = immorality

Agreed.

[hobbes]

If you believe that God is a myth, as you stated, then you are an Atheist.

All of the rest is smoke and mirrors.

The only other option is that you posted "God is a myth" for effect, which would be rather pathetic.

Why would it be pathetic? Again just saying something is so does not make it such. And if I were an atheist rather than an agnostic, would that make a whit of difference?

I regard an Atheist as one who out-right denies the possiblity of God. I don't believe that there is a God, I believe the God's presented to us by organized religion are myths and I doubt any other God of any sort. That may place me as a "soft" atheist or a "hard" agnostic, but I personally avoid the Atheist label because to me it is a fixed position. I like to take the attitude that I am willing to continue to refine my beliefs, as doubt is not proof.

So arguing the label of Atheist or agnostic is semantics and totally irrelvant to the points I have made.

You, again, have not touched on the actual point I made regarding Catholics begeting Catholics, but have chosen to quibble definitions which are of no relevance to anything.

My point in this thread that religions are divisive stands, my point that religions as a general rule brainwash people stands (Would you like see to all the votive candles at the local puddle that looks like the friggin' Virgin Mary, and hear the testimonials of those who visited?), my point that merely stating that something is "pathetic or bizarre" without any supporting evidence stands. My point that I must answer to myself as the highest authority stands. There is nothing more I wished to convey.

I am trying to make points, you are try to score them.

[Rat Faced]

Just to address one of Busymans points..

Religion is not necessarily an extra layer of consionce.. it could be quite the opposite depending upon the religion.

Some psycho's would consider their religion demands things, like certain fundamental muslims as an example or cults such as satanism.

Others, such as Catholicism, have "Confession" which to a certain type of person... would clear their consionce altogether. They will have been "forgiven" and all is well again.

[Rat Faced]

I know that JPaul..

Thats why i hilighted "To a certain type of person"...

Granted these are a minority, they do exist..

[uNz[i]]

First up, apologies for my lengthy absence; my funky PC suddenly refused to connect to the net... or anything requiring IP routing, for that matter.
Long story short, had to reformat to get the damned thing back online.

Anyways, back on topic...

Seems to me that we can agree on most things in this discussion, but unsurprisingly, religion has been the main cause of division and debate amongst us.

Just like it does out there in the real world.

Myself, I have no problem with folk who subscribe to any of the faiths, but I do think religion should be kept right out of politics.

But ~15 pages should be enough religious talk. What of patriotism and parochialism?

Fugley's first post in this thread said that if we were to truly gain a global society, we would eventually bemoan the loss of our own country's cultures.

Fugs, you are 100% correct on that count, imho.

It's already happening here in Australia, and has been ever since we entered into the US Free trade agreement.
(Don't go thinking I'm bashing America, hear me out.)

If anyone is to blame, it's the apathy of most of the Aussie population for letting what follows happen in the first place.

80% US content on Aussie cable TV. Complete with the obligatory waving of the stars and stripes and the singing of The star spangled banner at every opportunity... even during the kids cartoons fer cryin' out loud.
All thanks to Rupert bloody Murdoch.

McDonald's logos appearing on the game ball during the AFL (Australian Rules football) Grand Final.

Iconic Aussie companies are being sold off to US corporations one by one.
Even ownership of our public utilities is heading overseas (although I admit most of them are being sold off to French or UK companies).

Children play less tennis and football (Aussie Rules and Soccer), but basketball, baseball and gridiron are rapidly gaining popularity.

It's gotten to the point where I've even invented a name for it: Cultural irrelevence.
Hell, we have wiggers living just a few doors down the street, ffs.

But is this the loss of my culture or is it merely big businesses exploiting a new market with unexpected side effects?

It's a bit hard to tell. Only a conspiracy theorist would accuse overseas goverments of plotting to gradually assimilate a smaller nation by waging a subtle war via entertainment, commerce and advertising.

But it sure feels like that's just what's happening. There's even been public discussions at my local university about whether Australia should become a US state so we can benefit from the stronger US dollar.

Funny thing is, my culture is far from being the first one here. The Indigenous Australians must be laughing fit to burst.
After 200 years, the white fellas are finally getting a taste of thier own medicine.

Yes yes, I know. I'm just being parochial.