Patriotism = Parochialism

[vidcc]

As a graduate myself I guess all that extra "lernin" has clouded my ability to see common sense so if you disagree with this please put it down to that.

There is no absolute. The fear of God may be the suppression of crime for some, however there are some that use God to justify their crimes. A while ago we had a thread asking why it's ok for someone to say God told them to do good but that person is considered mad if they use "God told me to kill them" in their trial defence.

An atheist may not fear retribution from God but it is amazing how many "believers" are in prison.

The BTK suspect is a prime example. A leader of his church and indeed it has been found that most (but not all) serial killers are devout believers. This is of course dismissed as "hijacking" religion by the same people that jump on the fact that these killers have a few porno mags.

My waffle here is really just an extension of my only other post on this thread.... The reason we don't live in total world harmony is not because of religion, political beliefs or differing cultures...those are just used as an excuse to justify the fact that we just don't want to get along

[Rat Faced]

Im on Hobbes side on this.. ( I only read 1st 4 pages, so i dont know how its developed since then)

Atheism is as much a religion as any other.. ie Based on Faith and not evidence.

Its not the only "Negative" religion... Satanism wouldnt exist without Christianity for example, as it requires the Christian Devil (the bases of this is basically, "God forgives all, so keep the other fella happy" ) to exist.

If only 1 person believes in Zarguon, then its a religion. The fact that it was started by an author is immaterial, so was Scientology which is quite a large church now.


As there is no evidence, then its as valid a belief as any Religious faith, including my own.

To say that the Bible has "Historical Value" is laughable.

Its known that the Books it contains were picked and edited by a bunch of Romans that wished to maintain the status quo of Rome at that time, and that some of the things stated are untrue... such as Mary Magdolen (who, all evidence seems to suggest was an appostle, not a whore.. something the Vatican now admits is probably true).

The Bible is useful if read as JPaul looks at it, as parables/a guide to live your life by and not the "Literal Word of God" or a History Book... JPaul, my apologise if I have misinterpreted your feelings on how the Bible should be looked at, and i am not in any way trying to attack your personal faith in Catholicism which i know are sincere.

Paul

[hobbes]

Busyman,

I live and observe, just like you. I have supplemented my personal experience with additional formal education so I get the synergy of the two. I do not report what I read in a book, books are fallable, hypothesis get overturned, opinions are just that.

I learn and observe and I base my conclusions on this.

As to the Cardinals, I can't remember a thing about how well they played when I was young. I do remember that my parents would give me a pack of baseball cards every morning while they slept in to keep me entertained. I could not read but I could recognize the Cardinal logo. I would take those cards and ask them if the player was Bob Gibson.

As to my deathbed, I am going to be terrified of ceasing to exist. I will honestly tell you that I have 100% assurance that I will not go to hell or heavan. This does not even cross my mind in the darkest hours. My thought is that if I am wrong about God, he will understand because he created me and understands why I came to believe as I did.

I fear dying and ceasing to exist. Forgotten by the world which moves onward without missing a beat.

[hobbes]

George Bush claims to be a Christian, therefore all Christians are responsible for any actions he takes or policies he makes. I thought you knew that.

Where the fuck did this statement come from?

[hobbes]

Well you just said you were a college graduate. That's enough for me.

People kill for a reason. How the hell do you know that folks in China don't belive in God? This what I'm about. You don't actually know shit. Does this mean you know the guy walking down your street has faith? Your books fail you. I guess your wrong.

Who said anything about random killing? Laws do work...to an extent. Faith is the same. A devout Christian can still their mind after mental trauma. You put faith as an absolute failing by pointing out the same shit I've heard before....
"He was Christian yet murdered people." ...........nothing profound...heard it before.

The #1 "religion" in China is Atheism.

"meh" to the rest.

[hobbes]

I wrote it then pressed "submit reply"

Well, you probably shouldn't of, it was shite.

[Snee]

Re: religion

Meh, as long as we are all allowed, from the start, to believe in what we wish to believe in, then I have no problem with religion or the lack of it.

I don't think everyone has that option today tho', I think that some communities, whether it be christian communities or islamic or something else entirely don't allow for people to form their own opinion. And that is in essence the problem I have with religion, I don't mind the ideals as guidelines, as long as they are good, but when the word of god's representatives becomes absolute, then we are in trouble.

I think, like hobbes appears to do, that atheism is a kind of religion, some people might not like the idea but I feel that any conviction with regards to something that can't be proven during our lifetime is a form of religion.

I don't see any part of the bible as containing any astonishing and irrefutable truth, sure it may on occasion seem as prophecy, but any text that's been around for as long as the bible has is bound to touch base with reality at some point, it's just a matter of calculating the odds.

Maybe religion has made the world better, in primitive societies it has been a means to, and a template for, civilization. It offers a reward for conforming with the rules of society and in some cases an (imagined?) punishment, and faith does go deeper than mere threats.

But I'm not sure it's that good for advanced societies, as it slows us down and sometimes hurts us, it may be a matter of not allowing abortions, or jihads getting started, or not allowing certain research because the holy scripture of your choice says no.

Who knows were we had been today without it, maybe we could have spare parts made when we had hurt our bodies beyond repair for instance, if it hadn't been for religion having so much power over society. I'm sorry if I offend anyone, but on occasion I do feel that religion is like crime, if everyone acts on their own the impact on society isn't that bad, but if it becomes organized...

Believe what you want, but don't let it dictate everything you do, or everything society does.


I think I agree a little bit with everyone in this thread.

[hobbes]

I post shite a lot, why should that particular instance be any different.

I'm going to Biggles birthday party in the lounge. He's got a lava lamp you know.

[bigboab]

People kill for a reason. How the hell do you know that folks in China don't belive in God? This what I'm about. You don't actually know shit. Does this mean you know the guy walking down your street has faith? Your books fail you. I guess your wrong.

The following demography may have given Hobbes a clue.

The following entry in demographic details:

CHINA
Area: 9,596,596 sq km.
Population: 1,273,111,000.
Capital: Beijiing.
Government: Single-party Communist.
Ethnic Groups: Han Chinese 92%, 55 other minority groups.
Languages: Mandarin Chinese ( Official).
Official Religion: atheism.
Currency: Renminbi yuan.

[Snee]

But boab, atheism was forced on them, who knows what they really believe in?