Patriotism = Parochialism

[hobbes]

Hobbes,

There is no need for me to add another bizarre view to the collection you have already expressed in this thread.

What has been bizarre, I am at a loss.

[hobbes]

It doesn't seem bizarre to you, or presumably you wouldn't have posted it.

Stating that something is "bizarre" does not make it such. An example with supporting evidence is only appropriate.

[hobbes]

@BM,

I actually think you may be correct that as a general rule that a God figure does influence those in desperate situations. They can put their faith in God and tough it out rather than act out.

I think for most people, they would still behave, as a society of chaos goes against our innate desire for security, but those desperate people would no longer have any comfort for their pain.

I would like to think that people act within a self-imposed conscience, as I do, and not because of fear of punishment, but perhaps that is a luxury I have because I am fortunate to have a secure home and job. Perhaps if I were starving, I wouldn't be such a stickler about stealing.

Like Jpol reacted against my generalization (which I still believe)about people coming to know and adhering to a religion based on community and brainwashing, I reacted to you pointing out that people "behaved" because they are aware of a higher authority.

I tend to agree with your rule generally, but for me personally, the rule doesn't work, as for Jpol he does not feel he is brainwashed.

So just like Jpol, I don't like people telling me "how I think" or "how I can to believe what I do." Mea culpa, I am just a man.

There are probably 100 million Atheists (I halved the number given) in China behaving themselves but perhaps there are other variables involved. After my emotional response to your statement, I realized that I have said the same thing myself. Keeps the sheep calm.

So to sum up:

I think religion does keep the desperate from acting desperately, but I think that conflicts between different religions are a shame because they trash all the wisdom and philosophy to argue over details. It really strikes me as profoundly ironic, that those things which were originally created to bring order to chaos and teach people to get along, can and are a source of separation among people.

As a person who is not going to ascribe to ANY religion, I look at conflict based on religion, whether it be global or just kids beating up another because he is a "damn Jew", as pitiful and pointless. I wish we could have a unified religion in which we focused more on how to get along as a planet, and not on the details in some book.

[bigboab]

You appear to have mellowed a bit today Hobbes. Have you perchance begat last night?

[hobbes]

You appear to have mellowed a bit today Hobbes. Have you perchance begat last night?

A gentleman does not discuss such things.

[Rat Faced]

If the community and way you are brought up doesnt influence your religion...

Can someone explain to me how Catholics beget Catholics, CofE Beget CofE, Jew beget Jews etc etc etc in 99.99% of cases..

that leaves .1% that actually "Find" a religion that they werent brought up to believe in (ie Brainwashed)..

That doesnt mean they are wrong... just that it is what they were brought up to believe in...

The Earth must be flat, i was brought up that way...

[hobbes]

If the community and way you are brought up doesnt influence your religion...

Can someone explain to me how Catholics beget Catholics, CofE Beget CofE, Jew beget Jews etc etc etc in 99.99% of cases..

that leaves .1% that actually "Find" a religion that they werent brought up to believe in (ie Brainwashed)..

That doesnt mean they are wrong... just that it is what they were brought up to believe in...

The Earth must be flat, i was brought up that way...

The Earth may be flat but your words have sharp edges

[vidcc]

I agree with Busy that having God in ones life probably does influence people. I do however wish that it would be acknowledged more by those with faith that having God sometimes influences some to do do wrong. He has stated clearly that not all people of faith are "angels", but not admitted that some people do bad thing specifically because of their faith (or at least not clearly as far as I can tell)
I'm sure everyone could point to many atrocities committed in the name of god both on individual and institutional levels, let's not pretend that "religion" means good 100% of the time.

I am interested in the idea of what the world would be like without "god". It has been suggested that it would be a violent place with murders being considered acceptable because we wouldn't know the meaning of right and wrong.
I find this an interesting viewpoint seeing as man has worshipped for such a long time and yet there is no peace in the world.

I am with Hobbes on the religion thing.


Belief in God is not the problem, however following differing religions often is.

[hobbes]

Vidcc,

I believe that God was created by man to bring order to chaos.

I don't think the average man, that understands his own mortality, can live in our cruel world without a God to make things right.

I too, would love to think that my death was a transition to paradise, but my mind cannot buy the fairy tales which are clearly man-made, that offer such hope.

I wish I could, really, I do. I cannot imagine the beauty of a lack of fear of death or even an antipation of death, so that I could enter an eternity in heaven.

People often don't appreciate that there is no happiness in being a "non-believer" and that we desperately want some salvation, but we cannot buy in to silly man-made stories.

If there were some drug that would convert me to a religion and faith, I would take in a heartbeat.

[vidcc]

People often don't appreciate that there is no happiness in being a "non-believer" and that we desperately want some salvation, but we cannot buy in to silly man-made stories.

I believe when we die that is it. But i don't fear this. Why you ask? it is because i am not fearing the "unknown", which is what the fear is based on. I accept the nothing.

This doesn't mean that i want to die or that i am ready to die, I want as much time as i can get. It just means that i am "at peace" with the inevitable.