forgetting your roots

[vidcc]

@ hobbes

I would take more heed of the indivisible part of the arguement if we weren't so divided. We have different laws and even different punishments in the different states. We have divided attitudes based on location.
when we do come together it is something special..... i do sometimes wish that the something special could be the norm.
@ all
I do believe that to become a citizen one should have a reasonable vocabulary in the official tounge and the pledge should be said in that language.
This thread is about the foriegn language week...not every week and that's why i made it about forgetting our roots and that the boy was being disrespectful to his history.
That said there is no law that requires the pledge to be said...just that one has to be respectful. If someone stands and says the pledge in a different language alongside those using English i wouldn't see that as being disrespectful because it is the pledge that matters and not the language it is said in. We had the debate a while back about saying it without using the words "under God"....I doubt many would suggest that the whole pledge should be boycotted just because one doesn't believe in God and wishes to omitt those two words

[SideSwiped]

They likened it to hanging a cross upside down in a church ffs.

Do you know how wrong some people think that would be?


In essence they look down on all other languages used in the USA and that includes the official non-english ones.

The impression one might get from that is that they view people who don't have english as their first language as being of lesser worth.

I suppose on the cross issue, yes, that would give an impression of complete intolerance. I, personally, didn't give it a thought. I tend to ignore religious comparisons because religion is a very personal and private matter for me.

That too could very well be true.

Like I said, I don't agree, I don't have to agree. I am not defending nor condoning their actions. I am a moderate and strive to understand all sides of an issue. I would like to ask them why. What is it truly that upset them about this? And, what is it that truly upsets you?

I was not so moderate once. I saw in them what I used to feel when I was a teenager, only, my reaction was not about the Pledge or being an American, my intolerance and misplaced hatred was for homosexuals. Maybe in time and with luck the boy will change his feelings.

[SideSwiped]

I understand how you might have felt assuaged and comforted by a recitation of same in your native language (which would be what, BTW?), but I hope at this remove you can likewise appreciate what may have presented to you as a "club" to which you weren't entitled full "membership" until you had passed muster by demonstrating a genuine interest in belonging, which you have done by learning the language and (I assume) becoming naturalized.

I need to apologize to you j2k4. I read your post and was confused, until I reread mine and saw the weird double negative. I am American. My grandparents and great grandparents emmigrated here in the early 20th century. In a way, I am the melting pot. Italian, Greek, German, Sweedish, Polish and Jewish, what a mess eh?

And you are correct, it is about international language week, I used 'melting pot' to stress that it shouldn't have mattered.

Whether born here or naturalized, American is American. My only gripe about that is ppl calling themselves 'African American','Hispanic American', 'Asian American'. Either you're here or your not. That in itself can lead to resentment.

[Snee]

If assimilation/integration/time have their usual effect, to the extent the now-native and dominant Latino population finds itself communicating in English, what cockeyed brand of reasoning might possess them to harken back to their original language?

Pride in their history?

[Snee]

Like I said, I don't agree, I don't have to agree. I am not defending nor condoning their actions. I am a moderate and strive to understand all sides of an issue. I would like to ask them why. What is it truly that upset them about this? And, what is it that truly upsets you?

I'm not upset

But I do think that there more to it than a misplaced sense of pride, or a lack of eloquence. And that it's quite understandable why someone would take offence to their behavior, I don't know whether they are members of any nazi-affiliated organisation , but the way they behaved/spoke in this matter seems like idiocy and intolerance to me.

And a refusal to acknowledge that the rest of the world is full of people just like them, even tho' they can't understand these people.

[j2k4]

Pride in their history?

Pride would supplant a logistical expedient?

I wouldn't think so, but I could be wro..nah-don't think so.

Remember, we'd be talking a dominance of numbers, not a dominance of culture, unless you propose a concurrent extermination?

[Snee]

J2: I don't know, it was mere speculation.

One could argue that the current situation is one were the hispanic group are spanish speakers first, and english speakers second. This would, possibly, create a situation where, if they became a majority, they would see it as their right to make spanish the primary language used in official situations, such as when reciting the pledge of allegience. It would, after all, have been the language they identified themselves with all along.

This wouldn't be entirely wrong, would it?

[j2k4]

I need to apologize to you j2k4. I read your post and was confused, until I reread mine and saw the weird double negative. I am American. My grandparents and great grandparents emmigrated here in the early 20th century. In a way, I am the melting pot. Italian, Greek, German, Sweedish, Polish and Jewish, what a mess eh?

Egad.

Even I only claim German, Dutch, Swedish, Scots-Irish (whatever the hell that is), French, and American Indian.

Wait, that leaves us in a tie.

No need for an apology; always willing to cooperate to achieve maximum mis-understanding.

[j2k4]

J2: I don't know, it was mere speculation.

One could argue that the current situation is one were the hispanic group are spanish speakers first, and english speakers second. This would, possibly, create a situation where, if they became a majority, they would see it as their right to make spanish the primary language used in official situations, such as when reciting the pledge of allegience. It would, after all, have been the language they identified themselves with all along.

This wouldn't be entirely wrong, would it?

Possibly not.

What I do know is that we've postulated ourselves to the very brink of absurdity, as well as going well past the cats' feeding time.

[hobbes]

@ hobbes

I would take more heed of the indivisible part of the arguement if we weren't so divided. We have different laws and even different punishments in the different states. We have divided attitudes based on location.
when we do come together it is something special..... i do sometimes wish that the something special could be the norm.
@ all
This thread is about the foriegn language week...not every week and that's why i made it about forgetting our roots and that the boy was being disrespectful to his history.

Vidcc, no barriers can be removed without communication.

The regional variances are more like condiments at McDonalds, then the main course. We all top our quarter-pounders a little bit differently, but we are all still eating hamburgers.

I had a friend from the Ukraine, who spoke perfect English at school. I remember being at his house for his birthday party and his Grandmother had arrived for the event. He would effortlessly alternate from speaking to us in English to her strictly in Ukrainian. We were all pretty impressed, not offended. Also my Jewish friends liked to write things in Hebrew which we thought was cool as well. We wanted them to write our names in Hebrew.

The bottom line is that they were Americans first and they believed in what the pledge states. Regional and personal differences don't really divide us as long as well all believe what our country is supposed to stand for.

As for laws, does anyone really go into a new State and get concerned that they will be arrested because they don't know the law? "I'm not going to Mississippi, I have no idea what the law is?" Crime is crime. If you like to kill people, you might want to consider what State you are in, but that is a bit of an extreme example, to demonstrate differences.






As to the second point, I must apologise. I thought we were pretty much in accord that the kid was being an idiot as it was "language week".

When you posted this to J2:

What would your thoughts be then if it was said in both English and spanish in New mexico?

I thought you were trying to alter the course of the thread a little. You know test the limits of what we would find acceptable.

Guess I misunderstood your intent.