Do you own a gun?

[Busyman]

I take it you were joking when you posted that, after having posted it's either murder or it isn't.

Somewhat. You made reference to the law and but also made reference to religion (regarding murder). They are slightly different.

If an intruder threatens my life and he is killed in self defense it is not murder in the religious sense.

If an intruder comes to steal some shit and I shoot him rummaging through my shit, then it is murder, in the religious sense.

The law is a different animal altogether.

You also make reference to popular stuff like Bowling For Colombine and what not like it's a cultural phenomenon. It doesn't have squat to do with me since those parents allowed their children to run around willy-nilly. If the parents are dicks and I don't blame the mere existence of guns.

Me having six guns was a logical choice for me. Some may have their guns in a showcase. Mine are totally hidden. Some may have one gun but then I said self....what if I'm downstairs and can't get to my gun? What if my family is trapped?

Having them around has been no detriment.

However, I understand your uneasiness due to your apparent more passive attitude toward security. I even heard reference (not necessarily from you) to me having a privacy fence and an alarm system as though that helped make a point when it actually detracted from it.

Merely owning a gun don't make ya part of a gun culture. The NRA can suck a dick.

[Agrajag]

Somewhat. You made reference to the law and but also made reference to religion (regarding murder). They are slightly different.

If an intruder threatens my life and he is killed in self defense it is not murder in the religious sense.

If an intruder comes to steal some shit and I shoot him rummaging through my shit, then it is murder, in the religious sense.

The law is a different animal altogether.

You also make reference to popular stuff like Bowling For Colombine and what not like it's a cultural phenomenon. It doesn't have squat to do with me since those folks parents allowed their children to run around willy-nilly. I the parents are dicks and don't I blame the mere existence of guns.

Me having six guns was a logical choice for me. Some may have their guns in a showcase. Mine are totally hidden. Some may have one gun but then I said self....what if I'm downstairs and can't get to my gun? What if my family is trapped?

Having them around has been no detriment.

However, I understand your uneasiness due to your apparent more passive attitude toward security. I even heard reference (not necessarily from you) to me having a privacy fence and an alarm system as though that helped make a point when it actually detracted from it.

Merely owning a gun don't make ya part of a gun culture. The NRA can suck a dick.

"Merely owning a gun don't make ya part of a gun culture."

Yes it does.

But then you don't own a gun, you own at least six guns.

Part of a gun culture with your round half dozen methinks.

[fkdup74]

It's a way of life thing, bowling for Columbine and all that sort of chap.

you just invalidated any argument you may have tried to make up til now,
by referencing propoganda bullshit such as that
I didn't see anything wrong with what j2k4 and (most of what)Busyman posted
this is coming from someone who is always disagreeing with Busyman it seems
ask him, he'll tell ya
in fact, I have to agree with too much of what he posted here to try and quote it
wtf is so wrong with guns? when treated with responsibility?
answer: absolutely nothing
same as a vehicle, if used responsibly, no harm done
(I don't see protecting my family by shooting an intruder as harm)
as to how adequate most criminals are with firearms.....not very, trust me
I have grown up in some pretty mean streets, I know a little about them
(I, myself, can pick off a 12 oz. Budwieser bottle @ 100 yards w/o a scope, not too shabby if I dont say so myself)
and to the question of wether or not some jackass will open fire because you are armed....
he may, but he might also shit his pants and turn tail, without you having to fire one shot
these are things you never know, so how can it hurt to be prepared?
by prepared, I don't simply mean armed....


oh yeah, btw, I am a gun owner
nothin fancy, just a .270 Winchester
and no, not the ideal weapon for home defense,
but I am more than good enough with it for it to do
plus I can always bludgeon a son of a bitch if he gets too close for rifle maneuverability

[Agrajag]

you just invalidated any argument you may have tried to make up til now,
by referencing propoganda bullshit such as that
I didn't see anything wrong with what j2k4 and (most of what)Busyman posted
this is coming from someone who is always disagreeing with Busyman it seems
ask him, he'll tell ya
in fact, I have to agree with too much of what he posted here to try and quote it
wtf is so wrong with guns? when treated with responsibility?
answer: absolutely nothing
same as a vehicle, if used responsibly, no harm done
(I don't see protecting my family by shooting an intruder as harm)
as to how adequate most criminals are with firearms.....not very, trust me
I have grown up in some pretty mean streets, I know a little about them
(I, myself, can pick off a 12 oz. Budwieser bottle @ 100 yards w/o a scope, not too shabby if I dont say so myself)
and to the question of wether or not some jackass will open fire because you are armed....
he may, but he might also shit his pants and turn tail, without you having to fire one shot
these are things you never know, so how can it hurt to be prepared?
by prepared, I don't simply mean armed....

Thank you, another citizen of the USA pitching in. Thus confirming what I thought. Or am I wrong in thinking that it's only you chaps who feel this way.

Everyone else seems to think that machines designed specifically to kill other people are a bad thing. Particularly when they are freely available to anyone who wants one. Which is the feckin point of the Columbine thing, a right to have guns no matter how much of a fecktard you are.

Cars are designed to move people about, they are not designed to kill, like guns. So your argument is specious, but thanks for it anyway.

[vidcc]

Thank you, another citizen of the USA pitching in. Thus confirming what I thought. Or am I wrong in thinking that it's only you chaps who feel this way.

Everyone else seems to think that machines designed specifically to kill other people are a bad thing. Particularly when they are freely available to anyone who wants one. Which is the feckin point of the Columbine thing, a right to have guns no matter how much of a fecktard you are.

I can assure you that a great deal of the people in lands where gun ownership is all but illegal would probably have one if allowed. One only has to look at the "support" for that farmer in the UK that was imprisoned for shooting the intruders. Of course this would not be a good thing. The ideal would be zero guns but as I live in forced reality the best I can push for is better control.
There are nations with a far deeper level of gun culture than the USA but with different reasoning.... we just don't have many members from those nations.

[fkdup74]

Everyone else seems to think...

to hell with what every one else thinks
they dont live here, they shouldnt worry about it

Particularly when they are freely available to anyone who wants one.

exactly, the criminals will still get them on the black market
so why shouldnt honest citizens have the right to defend themselves?

Which is the feckin point of the Columbine thing

again with the propaganda references.....
and the whole lot of you that bought into that bullshit fancy yourselves intellectuals?

Cars are designed to move people about, they are not designed to kill

yeah.....put a drunk behind the wheel of a car....

So your argument is specious

no, it just happens to differ from you POV, grow up

[MCHeshPants420]

yeah.....put a drunk behind the wheel of a car....

That doesn't negate his point though. Put a drunk behind the wheel of a car and it becomes more dangerous of course. Though the same thing would be true of a drunk in possession of a firearm. The car analogy is a very weak one and really detracts from the second point you make which has some validity.

again with the propaganda references.....
and the whole lot of you that bought into that bullshit fancy yourselves intellectuals?


no, it just happens to differ from you POV, grow up

There's a clash in the two points you make in the above quote box. Obviously you don't agree with Michael Moore but surely that just differs from your own POV. (For the record I dislike MM but I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy in your post...)

to hell with what every one else thinks
they dont live here, they shouldnt worry about it

I doubt anyone is really worried about it though it does make for a fascinating topic of discussion, as evidenced by the sheer volume of posts in this thread. If they want to make their own views felt then why shouldn't they? Again I'll refer you to my previous point.

[sparsely]

to hell with what every one else thinks
they dont live here, they shouldnt worry about it

everyone that lives in the US doesn't agree with you either.

[hobbes]

Gun-related deaths per 100,000 people in the world's 36 richest countries in 1994 (I'm sure there are probably more up to date figures, but I think this illustrates the point):

United States 14.24
Brazil 12.95
Mexico 12.69
Estonia 12.26
Argentina 8.93
Northern Ireland 6.63
Finland 6.46
Switzerland 5.31
France 5.15
Canada 4.31
Norway 3.82
Austria 3.70
Portugal 3.20
Israel 2.91
Belgium 2.90
Australia 2.65
Slovenia 2.60
Italy 2.44
New Zealand 2.38
Denmark 2.09
Sweden 1.92
Kuwait 1.84
Greece 1.29
Germany 1.24
Hungary 1.11
Republic of Ireland 0.97
Spain 0.78
Netherlands 0.70
Scotland 0.54
England and Wales 0.41
Taiwan 0.37
Singapore 0.21
Mauritius 0.19
Hong Kong 0.14
South Korea 0.12
Japan 0.05

The general trend is more or less in line with rates of gun ownership.
I think I'll stick to a simple "No thanks".

As an American, how can we not see that the reality of these numbers.

Collect all handguns and impose severe penalties upon those found with them.

It works, and we have the proof right here.

The reality is that most criminals don't want to hurt you or want you home when they attack, they just want your stuff.

Alarms are the answer.

One of the unique problems in America is this Red Dawn fantasy that we will be taken over and all those proud Americans with their handguns will unite in some secret army to take "her back". A true, but sad fantasy.

[Busyman]

As an American, how can we not see that the reality of these numbers.

Collect all handguns and impose severe penalties upon those found with them.

It works, and we have the proof right here.

The reality is that most criminals don't want to hurt you or want you home when they attack, they just want your stuff.

Alarms are the answer.

One of the unique problems in America is this Red Dawn fantasy that we will be taken over and all those proud Americans with their handguns will unite in some secret army to take "her back". A true, but sad fantasy.

Sorry hobbes that ain't the answer.

I love folks who point to stats as an answer.

Correlation is not cause and effect.

I want to see number of homicides in those same countries.
I also want to see how those countries are run. What other influences are there?

If kniving deaths were prevalent, I'd be hearing about getting rid of knives.

We need tighter gun laws here. Period.

I am being grouped with kids from fucking Columbine ffs.
How can I be penalized for the shortcomings of idiots.
Furthermore, foreigners and gun control activists are basically saying I'm one of the idiots due to simple ownership.

I don't give a fuck about what you say guns are designed to do. Hell they also wound and anythings a weapon if you make it so.

I also have 3 swords, a pair of nunchakus, a boat load of shurikens, mace, shuko, etc. Should they be confiscated?