Good Luck Liv'pool

[Illuminati]

At this point, it'll be foolish to predict what will happen.

It looks UEFA's current stance is that while they relate to Liverpool in the circumstances, they won't make the FA give them a place. Having said that, the UEFA President and Chief Executive have both expressed personal wishes for Liverpool to defend the title.

I guess we'll find out what happens soon enough. No matter what happens, an upset is sadly unavoidable.

I'll say this though - If Everton do indeed take the place, they'd better bloody win it!

[manker]

I'll say this though - If Everton do indeed take the place

They've already taken it, by finishing fourth.

Just try, for a minute, to imagine if the shoe was on the other foot. I'm quite sure that there would be no benevolence among your lot if that was the case.

So ... it is rather hypocritical to expect Everton to sit this one out.

[Illuminati]

[QUOTE=manker]

Just try, for a minute, to imagine if the shoe was on the other foot. I'm quite sure that there would be no benevolence among your lot if that was the case.

So ... it is rather hypocritical to expect Everton to sit this one out.

If the champion did not get into the final four, I'd still prefer the champions to still get a place in next year's league. Doesn't matter that Liverpool won it - That view would still apply whether it was Liverpool, Man United, Chelsea, Arsenal, Newcastle or even West Bromwich Albion.

Just try, for a minute, to imagine that I wasn't an ignorant Liverpool supporter and (unlike many United fans I was talking to yesterday) that I can forget a domestic rivalry to cheer on a national level. Hell, I actually supported United for the FA Cup final, and they did deserve it compared to le Arsenal.

And TBH, I'm not expecting Everton to lose their place because of Liverpool. I'm hoping UEFA do something that'll let LFC in but not to take Everton's place.

But I still think that Everton would probably have as much chance of winning the Champions League as Norwich

[manker]

[QUOTE=Illuminati]

If the champion did not get into the final four, I'd still prefer the champions to still get a place in next year's league - Doesn't matter whether Liverpool won it or not. And that view would still be there whether it was Liverpool, United, Chelsea, Arsenal, Newcastle or even West Bromwich Albion.

And TBH, I'm not expecting Everton to lose their place because of Liverpool. I'm hoping UEFA do something that'll let LFC in but not to take Everton's place.

I would also like the champions to be able to defend their title - as I posted an hour ago - but this year, which is what we're talking about, provision hasn't been made if they do not qualify through their domestic league.

What you're suggesting HAS to involve another club missing out, whether it be Everton or a club from abroad. There is no other way.

You're a hypocrite if you want Liverpool to defend their title this year at the expense of a different team because YOU wouldn't be magnanimous should it be Liverpool that had to give up their hard earned right to compete. None of us would.

You should accept the situation with dignity rather than bitch. Not that I expect any Liverpool fans to do that, of course.

Just try, for a minute, to imagine that I wasn't an ignorant Liverpool supporter and (unlike many United fans I was talking to yesterday) that I can forget a domestic rivalry to cheer on a national level. Hell, I actually supported United for the FA Cup final, and they did deserve it compared to le Arsenal.

That's totally irrelevant. What is your point, I'm talking about Liverpool's right to compete next year.

But I still think that Everton would probably have as much chance of winning the Champions League as Norwich

The same could be said of Liverpool this year and Porto before them. Shocks happen in cup competitions, domestic leagues are needed to sort the wheat from the chaff.

[MCHeshPants420]

They should do what they did in Karate Kid III for Ralph Macchio.

[Illuminati]

I would also like the champions to be able to defend their title - as I posted an hour ago - but this year, which is what we're talking about, provision hasn't been made if they do not qualify through their domestic league.

What you're suggesting HAS to involve another club missing out, whether it be Everton or a club from abroad. There is no other way.

Not really. ATM the group stages eliminate the 32 teams into eight for the playoffs. It can safely made that one group takes five teams.

Admittedly, this would be unusual and be like taking the short straw during the draw, but it would be the best method of the champions still competiting (so they can be defeated) while making sure no other team suffers because of their presence.

You're a hypocrite if you want Liverpool to defend their title this year at the expense of a different team because YOU wouldn't be magnanimous should it be Liverpool that had to give up their hard earned right to compete. None of us would.

I'd be a little pissed if it happens, but the fact that then they'd have no claim to entry would mean the feeling would subside.

If it eventually comes that Liverpool will indeed not qualify in any way for the Champions League next year, so be it. But to believe that many Liverpool fans will not hope that the new development of winning the title less than 24 hours ago may not hold a chance is naive at best.

As I said long ago in this thread, what happens happens. Not everyone will be content within whatever happens in the short-term aftermath of the match, but this matter will (gladly) be finished within a few weeks one way or another.

You should accept the situation with dignity rather than bitch. Not that I expect any Liverpool fans to do that, of course.

Oh go screw yourself, you welsh United wannabe. United's bitching roar would be even worse if it was on the other foot and you know it.

That's totally irrelevant. What is your point, I'm talking about Liverpool's right to compete next year.

My point is that you've been wanting Liverpool to lose before the match, and I get the feeling you can't stand the thought of one of United's rivals having the chance to defend it if it could be helped. Especially since each of United's rivals have stopped United getting silverware - Chelsea with the Premiership, Arsenal with the FA Cup, and now Liverpool with the Champions League.

I'm not saying you've been one-sided, but I do say you've been biased.

Shocks happen in cup competitions, domestic leagues are needed to sort the wheat from the chaff.

We're agreed on sorting the wheat from the chaff - It's just a case of whether the reigning team should go through.

Thinking about it though, it'd be more interesting if only the champions of each domestic league went through. It'd make it a bit more faster and make it deserve the term Champions League a bit more.

[MCHeshPants420]

Not really. ATM the group stages eliminate the 32 teams into eight for the playoffs. It can safely made that one group takes five teams.

They could also try and find some way of fitting them into the qualifying stages if they did decide to have them in the tournament.

[JPaul]

I believe a Welsh team offered to play an extra qualifying place against Liverpool. With the winner going into the qualifiers proper.

Seems like a good solution to me. Small team gets good gates and possible TV money. Liverpool get chance to play in tournament.

That's the only way I could see it work, with everyone happy. However UEFA would have to circumvent their own rules to do it and I suspect they will avoid that.

Rules is rules and everybody knows them.

Shame.

PS I also agree it is mentalist that the winner does not get an automatic place.

[Illuminati]

I have to admit it's a good solution but something doesn't feel that right about it, having to fight for what's rightfully theirs anyway.

I would love to see Liverpool go through. I really would. But to take another team's place, even being the champions that doesn't feel right. Only thing I'd like is for the Welsh team to beat Liverpool if that happens - Welsh team qualifies, the champions have their unofficial chance & the champions' defeat is there.

I think the reason there is no automatic place is because most of the time the champions have qualified. Looking at it in another light though, maybe it would be a good thing if Liverpool didn't go through; like manker said, they didn't earn the right to qualify. And rather than it being a persistant competition as say boxing (and as I originally saw it), it's an annual tournament; teams have to qualify.

What I would love to see instead though is the winners of next year's champions league take on Liverpool in a friendly after the final - Can't win a contest without defeating the champions

[manker]

Not really. ATM the group stages eliminate the 32 teams into eight for the playoffs. It can safely made that one group takes five teams.

Admittedly, this would be unusual and be like taking the short straw during the draw, but it would be the best method of the champions still competiting (so they can be defeated) while making sure no other team suffers because of their presence.

You're a hypocrite if you want Liverpool to defend their title this year at the expense of a different team because YOU wouldn't be magnanimous should it be Liverpool that had to give up their hard earned right to compete. None of us would.

I'd be a little pissed if it happens, but the fact that then they'd have no claim to entry would mean the feeling would subside.

If it eventually comes that Liverpool will indeed not qualify in any way for the Champions League next year, so be it. But to believe that many Liverpool fans will not hope that the new development of winning the title less than 24 hours ago may not hold a chance is naive at best.

As I said long ago in this thread, what happens happens. Not everyone will be content within whatever happens in the short-term aftermath of the match, but this matter will (gladly) be finished within a few weeks one way or another.

You should accept the situation with dignity rather than bitch. Not that I expect any Liverpool fans to do that, of course.

Oh go screw yourself, you welsh United wannabe. United's bitching roar would be even worse if it was on the other foot and you know it.

That's totally irrelevant. What is your point, I'm talking about Liverpool's right to compete next year.

My point is that you've been wanting Liverpool to lose before the match, and I get the feeling you can't stand the thought of one of United's rivals having the chance to defend it if it could be helped. Especially since each of United's rivals have stopped United getting silverware - Chelsea with the Premiership, Arsenal with the FA Cup, and now Liverpool with the Champions League.

I'm not saying you've been one-sided, but I do say you've been biased.

Shocks happen in cup competitions, domestic leagues are needed to sort the wheat from the chaff.

We're agreed on sorting the wheat from the chaff - It's just a case of whether the reigning team should go through.

Thinking about it though, it'd be more interesting if only the champions of each domestic league went through. It'd make it a bit more faster and make it deserve the term Champions League a bit more.

Now that is better, you were intimating earlier that Everton should be forced to step aside, this new viewpoint is one I agree with for the most part. However, your logistics are askew.

The only way to properly incorporate them into the tournament is to make one of the groups in the first round proper a five team round-robin. They'd have to bypass the qualifiers then tho' - which is obviously unfair given their lowly final position in the Premiership and the increased number of games that the other clubs would have to play c.f. the teams in other groups. Sir Alex certainly wouldn't like that and neither would UEFA, one presumes.

The idea of them going into the qualifiers is also fraught with problems as insted of having 56 teams competeing for 16 places, you now have 57. The three qualifying rounds for the CL are intricate and meticulously planned with 20 teams competeing in the first round, an extra 18 enter at the second round stage and a final 18 are added in the 3rd round.

If Liverpool were to enter in any of the stages - even if an extra play-off against a Welsh club was organised - then you'd have an odd number of clubs so it simply wouldn't work. When I said that another club would have to miss out if the rules were changed such that Liverpool were able to defend their title, this is what I meant.


Now where is the anti-Liverpool bias in that. It's simply mathematics.

Someone will have to miss out if Liverpool are to defend the cup. You've now said that you don't want that therefore I must assume that due to this fact you don't want Liverpool in next years competition.

Neither do I but I also have extra reason. I fucking hate Liverpool and wish misfortune on them