I would like to argue something pretty important to me.

[bigboab]

The targeted attacks in Nablus were a result of the bombings.

At least Israel targets militants, not women, children and elderly.....!!!!

Rafi. Please check before you make statements like that. I came across this when I was hunting for that other subject.

Despite these efforts, television stations around the world transmitted images of the horror prevailing in Palestine. Among the history-making moments were images of Palestinians shot point-blank in the head, bound and blindfolded captives being dragged off to the unknown, a world leader addressing the world by candlelight, dark and deserted Palestinian streets, hospitals that had incurred the wrath of Israeli soldiers, nuns and monks shot by Israeli tanks, and NGO members trying to form a "human shield" for the innocent Palestinian people. When the morgues at Ramallah's hospitals were full, they started to put two bodies into units intended for one. Then news came of mass graves being created for those who had been murdered. Places such as Tulkarem, Bethlehem, and Qalqilya had become sites of bloodbaths in the full sense of the word. In Bethlehem, believed to be the town where Jesus was born, many Palestinians desperately sought shelter in churches, but to no avail. This was no obstacle for the Israel army, as news reports soon appeared of shots being fired at churches and even members of the Christian clergy being killed.

The rest of the article can be found here;

http://www.palestiniantragedy.com/latestattacks.html



I am not taking sides here. Its just the fact that when I read your statement the above article came to mind.

[Rat Faced]

Come on man, you know it wouldn't have made a difference anyway. What if Israel tried to kill a Jihad member, but killed a Hammas member by mistake?
It's possible - all Arab militants look the same - covered face with black stockings, and a Kalashnikov handy..

They all look the same huh?

Doesnt make a difference...

Well, it sure as hell makes a difference to them.

And now it could well start a civil war in the occupied territories, between Hamas and the Authority.. Thats something that Sharron would welcome, kill an awfull lot of towel heads without wasting Israeli Ammo huh?

Ah, forget it Tralala... read some finnish papers or something, then come back when your able to criticise both sides in what is a bloody stupid situation.

[bigboab]

I know this is only a discussion. But Rafi has had to experience this situation most of his life. We can only imagine the situation. He has not been 'brainwashed', his country has had to deal with a very tricky situation. How would we deal with the same situation?

I am not trying to be funny when I say if I was young and in the Israeli forces I would tend to be like Lt Howard Hunter out of 'Hill Street Blues'. Hit them with everything you are armed with. After negotiations have failed of course.
Taking into acount that the vast majority of the worlds politicians say that they will not negotiate with terrorist. How the hell are we going to solve not only this crisis but the 'islamic' crisis too.

They are saying they are doing for Islam not me. That last part is probably in the wrong thread. Bedtime.

[RioDeLeo]

At least Israel targets militants, not women, children and elderly.....!!!!

Is that right?

Israel's top military prosecutor is investigating an army commander accused of repeatedly firing at the lifeless body of a young Palestinian girl.

Soldiers said they pleaded with the officer to stop as he sprayed Iman al-Hams, 13, with automatic gunfire.

She had been shot by Israeli soldiers after straying into a restricted area near Gaza's border with Egypt.

Hundreds of Palestinian children have been killed by Israeli troops during the Palestinian uprising or intifada.

It is unusual for the army to launch an investigation into the circumstances of such incidents.

But the death of Iman al-Hams is different because soldiers have complained publicly about the behaviour of their commander - who has not been named.

Close range

Without revealing their identities, soldiers from the Givati brigade platoon told Israeli television how Iman al-Hams had been shot on 5 October in the Tel Sultan neighbourhood of Rafah.

"We saw her from a distance of 70 metres. She was fired at ... from the outpost. She fled and was wounded," a soldier said.

While Iman was lying, wounded or dead, about 70m from the Israeli guard post, the platoon commander approached her and fired two bullets from close range at her head, the soldiers said.

He then went back a second time, put his weapon on the automatic setting and - ignoring their objections on the walkie-talkie - emptied his entire magazine into her body.

"We couldn't believe what he had done. Our hearts ached for her. Just a 13-year-old girl," one soldier said.

"How do you spray a girl from close range? He was hot for a long time to take out terrorists and shot the girl to relieve pressure," the soldier added.

It is not clear from reports whether the investigation will focus on the initial shooting of Iman al-Hams or the officer's subsequent behaviour.

"Confirming the kill" - as Israeli troops call shooting combatants at close range to make sure they are dead - goes against Israeli military regulations governing the rules of engagement, Haaretz newspaper reported.

Palestinian witnesses say it was more than an hour before the Israeli troops would let medics get to the body in an ambulance.

Sniper fire

Initially the Israeli army had said Iman al-Hams was shot because she was suspected of carrying a bomb to the army outpost.

It was reported that the Israeli troops had initially thought her satchel contained explosives - although it was found only to contain school books.

Chief of Staff Lieutenant General Moshe Ayalon defended his troops on Sunday, telling the Israeli cabinet that Iman al-Hams had been sent towards the outpost to draw out the soldiers so that Palestinian snipers could fire at them.

Her brother Ihab al-Hams angrily brushed off news of the investigation.

"Will this bring her back to life? Will this bring her back home? Will this heal our wound?" he told reporters.

"They are murderers and they killed her in cold blood."

Have a look here for the real story of what goes on >> 12 yr old boy SHOT DEAD in front of your eyes

[tralalala]

Right, @BB's first post:
You took it from a Palestinian loving website, or an Israeli racist website, I can tell by the nem of the website..... None of the stories are true - Any Israeli soldier ding such a think would be sent ot prison for a long time (only last week after some settlers wanted to murder a Palestinian 16 yr old, an Israeli managed to stop it, and the organiser will be accused of attemt of murder).

@RF: What if I was to tell you Israel were stopping a "ticking clock"? I mean someone who is about to go and blow himself up, and Israel god intelligence before he got onto his mission?

@Rio: That soldier was suspended for life from the IDF, and we are sorry it ever happened, it was a horrible mistake, and, ONE mistake.
Your second story has no life to it, and I shall explain why:
That video was taken right at the beginning of the Intifadah, around October/November of the year 2000.
The story is that those 2 people were caught at battle between Israeli armed forces and the Palestinian militants.
In the end it was verified that the kid was killed by Palestinian fire.

One other thing: Did you notice that the father sort of "got the best spot", and sat inside that cement thingy? I would have made sure my son would have been safer if that occured.. Just a side thought...

But anyhoot you're going back almost 5 years, irrelivant story, and as your little fairytale tells it, it is complely untrue.

[tralalala]

Plus, this only happened once...... How many times have they done it? I get sick of trying to count.

Don't try and say we are worse because of 1 silly mistake, and about 1000 of theirs.

[RioDeLeo]

@Rio: That soldier was suspended for life from the IDF, and we are sorry it ever happened, it was a horrible mistake, and, ONE mistake.

That'll teach him not to kill young girls, won't it?

The story is that those 2 people were caught at battle between Israeli armed forces and the Palestinian militants
In the end it was verified that the kid was killed by Palestinian fire.

Wrong on both counts! You really should get your facts straight, "Occupied Jerusalem: October 3/00 - An Israeli army spokesman has admitted that Israeli soldiers murdered the Palestinian child Rami Al-Durra on Sunday.

The spokesman claimed the soldiers were responding to stone throwing and didn't notice the child and his father who were taking cover against a wall from Israeli bullets."

One other thing: Did you notice that the father sort of "got the best spot", and sat inside that cement thingy? I would have made sure my son would have been safer if that occured.. Just a side thought...

Yes, you certainly have a plethora of "side thoughts" don't you?

But anyhoot you're going back almost 5 years, irrelivant story, and as your little fairytale tells it, it is complely untrue.

The typical post of someone whose blinkers have slipped and they don't like what they've seen.

You really are losing all credibility now, posting these lies and crap. l must admit though to a chuckle when l read your bit about Syria not wanting the Golan Heights back, classic!

[RioDeLeo]

Plus, this only happened once...... How many times have they done it? I get sick of trying to count.

Don't try and say we are worse because of 1 silly mistake, and about 1000 of theirs.

List of Palestinian children killed by Israelis in 2000 lists Palestinian infants, children and youth killed by Israeli soldiers and civilians in 2000 after the beginning of the al-Aqsa Intifada on September 30, 2000.

You can also see the list of israeli children who were murdered by suicide bombs HERE

30 September 2000
Nizar Aida, 16, of Ramallah, killed by Israeli forces gunfire to chest.
Khaled Bazyan, 15, of Nablus, killed by Israeli forces gunfire to head.
Muhammad al-Durrah, 12, of Bureij camp, Gaza, killed by Israeli forces gunfire to abdomen and chest.
1 October 2000
Muhammad Dawood, 15, of el-Bireh, killed by Israeli forces gunfire to head.
Sara Hassan, 18 months, of Nablus, killed in car by Israeli settler gunfire to head.
Samer Tabanja, 10, of Nablus, killed by Israeli forces helicopter gunfire to head.
Sami Taramsi, 17, of Gaza, killed by Israeli forces gunfire to head.
2 October 2000
Wael Qattawi, 16, of Balata camp, killed by Israeli forces gunfire to head.
Muhammad Sajdi, 17, of Jericho, killed by Israeli forces gunfire to abdomen.
3 October 2000
Husam Hamshari, 16, of Tulkarm, killed by Israeli forces gunfire to head.
Ammar Rifai, 17, of Maghazi camp, killed by Israeli forces gunfire to head.
4 October 2000
Muhammad Abu Asi, 9, of Khan Yunis, killed by Israeli forces gunfire to chest.
6 October 2000
Majdi Misilmani, 15, of Beit Hanina, killed by Israeli forces gunfire to heart.
Muhammad Tammam, 17, of Tulkarm, killed by Israeli forces gunfire to chest.
8 October 2000
Yusif Khalaf, 17, of Rafah camp, killed by Israeli forces gunfire to head.
11 October 2000
Sami Silmi, 17, of Tulkarm, killed by Israeli forces gunfire to chest.
12 October 2000
Sami Abu Jazar, 12, of Rafah, killed by Israeli forces gunfire to head.
14 October 2000
Ala Ahmad, 10, of Nablus, died of burst appendix after Israeli army denied access to hospital.
16 October 2000
Muayad Abu Jawarish, 14, of Aida camp, Bethlehem, killed by Israeli forces gunfire to head.
20 October 2000
Samer Awaisi, 15, of Qalqilya, killed by Israeli forces gunfire to upper body.
Ala Bani Nimra, 13, of Salfit, killed by Israeli forces gunfire to chest.
Muhammad Abu Tahun, 17, of Tulkarm, killed by Israeli forces gunfire to chest and neck.
21 October 2000
Majid Hawamdeh, 15, of el-Bireh, killed by Israeli forces gunfire to head.
Omar Ibheisi, 16, of Deir el-Balah, killed by Israeli forces gunfire to upper body.
22 October 2000
Wael Emad, 16, of Jabalyah camp, killed by Israeli forces rubber coated bullet to head.
Salah Nijmi, 15, of Maghazi camp, killed by Israeli forces gunfire to heart.
23 October 2000
Ashraf Habayeb, 15, of Nablus, killed by Israeli forces gunfire to head.
24 October 2000
Nidal Dbeiki, 17, of Gaza, killed by Israeli forces gunfire (fragmenting bullet) to abdomen.
Iyyad Shath, 14, of Khan Yunis, killed by Israeli forces rubber coated bullet to head.
26 October 2000
Ala Jawabra, 14, of Hebron, killed by Israeli forces gunfire to head.
27 October 2000
Bashir Shalawit (deaf), 16, of Qalqilya, killed by Israeli forces gunfire to abdomen.
29 October 2000
Husni Najjar, 14, of Rafah camp, killed by Israeli forces gunfire to head.
1 November 2000
Muhammad Hajjaj, 15, of Gaza, killed by Israeli forces gunfire to head.
Ibrahim Omar, 15, of Shati camp, killed by Israeli forces gunfire to chest.
Ahmad Abu Tayeh, 13, of Shati camp, killed by Israeli forces gunfire to head.
2 November 2000
Khaled Khatib, 17, of Jerusalem, killed by Israeli forces gunfire to chest.
3 November 2000
Rami Abdel-Fattah, 15, of Jerusalem, killed by Israeli forces gunfire (fragmenting bullet) to upper body.
5 November 2000
Maher Saidi, 16, of Bureij camp, killed by Israeli forces gunfire to head.
6 November 2000
Wajdi Hattab, 13, of Tulkarm, killed by Israeli forces gunfire to chest.
Muhammad Jazar, 16, of Rafah camp, killed by Israeli forces gunfire to head.
Muhammad Taban, 17, of Deir el-Balah, killed by Israeli forces gunfire to back.
7 November 2000
Ahmad Khuffash, 7, of Salfit, hit by a car driven by Israeli settlers.
8 November 2000
Fares Audeh, 16, of Hebron, killed by Israeli forces gunfire to upper body.
Raed Dawood, 14, of Salfit, killed by Israeli forces gunfire (fragmenting bullet) to pelvis.
Muhammad Abu Ghali, 15, of Khan Yunis, killed by Israeli forces gunfire to chest.
Ibrahim Qassas, 17, of Khan Yunis, killed by Israeli forces gunfire to head.
Khalil Abu Saad, 15, of Shati camp, killed by Israeli forces gunfire to chest.
Khaled Abu Zahra, 17, of Nur Shams camp, killed by Israeli forces gunfire to upper body.
10 November 2000
Usama Azouka, 14, of Jenin, killed by Israeli forces gunfire to upper body.
Usama Jirjawi, 17, of Gaza, killed by Israeli forces gunfire to chest.
11 November 2000
Musa Dibs, 15, of Jabliyah camp, killed by Israeli forces gunfire to chest.
12 November 2000
Mahmoud Abu Naji, 16, of Khan Yunis, killed by Israeli forces sniper fire to chest.
13 November 2000
Yahya Abu Shamalah, 17, of Khan Yunis, killed by Israeli forces sniper fire to back and heart.
14 November 2000
Muhammad Ajla, 13, of Gaza, killed by Israeli forces gunfire to head.
Saber Barash, 15, of Amari camp, killed by Israeli forces gunfire to upper body.
15 November 2000
Ahmad Basal, 13, of Deir el-Balah, killed by Israeli forces gunfire to heart and back.
Jadou Abu Iqbash, 16, of Hebron, killed by Israeli forces gunfire to chest.
Ibrahim Jeaidi, 15, of Qalqilya, killed by Israeli forces gunfire (fragmenting bullet) to upper body.
Muhammad Shurafi, 17, of Gaza, killed by Israeli forces gunfire to head.
16 November 2000
Jihad Abu Shahmeh, 11, of Khan Yunis, killed by Israeli forces gunfire to head.
17 November 2000
Muhammad Abu Rayan, 16, of Halhoul, killed by Israeli forces gunfire to face.
19 November 2000
Abdul Rahman Dahshan, 14, of Maghazi camp, killed by Israeli forces gunfire to chest.
20 November 2000
Ibrahim Othman, 16, of Rafah, killed by Israeli forces gunfire to upper body.
21 November 2000
Yasser Abdul Rahim, 16, of Tulkarm, killed by Israeli forces gunfire to chest.
22 November 2000
Ibrahim Moqanan, 15, of Khan Yunis, killed by Israeli forces gunfire to head.
23 November 2000
Maram Hassouna, 3, of el-Bireh, died of [[asphyxiation after inhaling Israeli forces tear gas.
24 November 2000
Majdi Abed, 15, of Gaza, killed by Israeli forces gunfire to head.
25 November 2000
Abdul Minem Izzidin, 17, of Jenin, killed by Israeli forces gunfire to head.
28 November 2000
Karam Kurd, 14, of Rafah, killed by Israeli forces gunfire to head.
29 November 2000
Muhammad Mashrawi, 14, of Gaza, killed by Israeli forces gunfire to head.
30 November 2000
Wael Badan, 17, of Bethlehem, killed by Israeli forces gunfire to upper body.
Shadi Zaghoul, 14, of Husan, .hit by a car driven by Israeli settler and left to bleed to death.
1 December 2000
Muhammad Arja, 12, of Rafah, killed by Israeli sniper fire to neck.
5 December 2000
Ramzi Bayatnah, 15, of Ramallah, killed by Israeli forces gunfire to head.
8 December 2000
Ammar Mashni, 16, of Jerusalem, killed by Israeli forces gunfire to head.
Mutaz Teilakh, 16, of Ramallah, killed by Israeli forces gunfire to head.
9 December 2000
Salim Hameida, 13, of Rafah, killed by Israeli forces gunfire to head.
11 December 2000
Ahmad Qawasmi, 14, of Hebron, killed by Israeli forces (point blank) gunshot to head.
15 December 2000
Muhammad Dawood, 16, of Nablus, killed by Israeli forces gunfire to upper body.
20 December 2000
Hani Sufi, 14, of Rafah, killed by Israeli forces gunfire to upper body.
22 December 2000
Arafat Jabarin, 16, of Hebron, killed by Israeli forces gunfire to head.

Source = Wikipedia

[RioDeLeo]

I know this is only a discussion. But Rafi has had to experience this situation most of his life. We can only imagine the situation. He has not been 'brainwashed', his country has had to deal with a very tricky situation. How would we deal with the same situation?

I am not trying to be funny when I say if I was young and in the Israeli forces I would tend to be like Lt Howard Hunter out of 'Hill Street Blues'. Hit them with everything you are armed with. After negotiations have failed of course.
Taking into acount that the vast majority of the worlds politicians say that they will not negotiate with terrorist. How the hell are we going to solve not only this crisis but the 'islamic' crisis too.

They are saying they are doing for Islam not me. That last part is probably in the wrong thread. Bedtime.

What if you were Palestinian?

[tralalala]

First off, a 17 year old Palestinian is like a 25 yr old Israeli.... They attack us (there have been several bombers no older than 18).

Second: Do you really want me to give you the list of Israeli children killed by Militants and/or suiciders..?