I would like to argue something pretty important to me.

[Busyman]

In Iraq, its because of an illegal war and the foreign policy of western nations that then get targeted too.

Wtf is an illegal war?

[bigboab]

If any of you have a spare day or so. this link, plus all the other links inside, will give you all the info you need. It also contains a timeline on the situation.

http://www.mideastweb.org/timeline.htm

Unfortunately it does not give you the answers.

[Snee]

In Iraq, its because of an illegal war and the foreign policy of western nations that then get targeted too.

Wtf is an illegal war?

A war not approved by the UN, I suppose.

[Busyman]

Wtf is an illegal war?

A war not approved by the UN, I suppose.

Oh, papers drawn up and signed off on?

Bullshit.

[Rat Faced]

A war for specifically for regime change is illegal under International Law.

Now that all arguments they use to justify it have broken down, there have been leaks on both sides of the Atlantic showing that this is what the whole thing was about in the first place.

Indeed, both Governments have been bragging about it for a couple of years now.

[bigboab]

Wtf is an illegal war?

A war not approved by the UN, I suppose.

I think its when one side is bigger and stronger than you.

What if you dont obey or belong to the UN?

[Rat Faced]

Snny...

The Occupation happened in 1967.

Most of the "settlers" arrived long after that.

They went there for a specific purpose and knew the land didnt belong to Israel in any legal terms. They went anyway.

"Settlers" is being used one way here too.

There are Arab "settlers" of Jewish land not in Israel, when Jews evacuated the surrounding land in 1948 and in 1967 to avoid the fighting.

I have the same argument to them.. tough, its not yours.

There are also Jewish Palestinians. Jews have been in Palestine a long time, and are recognised by the Palestinian Authority as being Palestinian if there prior to 1948.

Do you have any statistics for when most of the settlements occured?

It was my understanding that Israel's borders were expanded in a big way increasingly in the years after 1967 and that the outward growth has kept a much slower (but steady) pace in more recent years. I could be wrong though.

And, if I'm wrong about that, I'm wrong about how many people are innocent and are not, I don't mind admitting to that as long as it's a fact and not one of those dodgy links as provided by a tosser.


And for the record, I'm all for evicting thieves if indeed that's what they are, and for compensating those who were stolen from. Innocents shouldn't have to suffer though.

Settlement didnt start in ernest until 1977 when the Likud Party gained power in Israel.

Ariel was built in the 1980's i think, and has been growing ever since.

In total, there are about 250,000 Jews living in the West Bank.. i would assume most of them are in Ariel so, basically most have went there within the last 25 years.

Number of settlers for specific years? you'd best look up the Israeli stats

[Snee]

Ah, 'k, that's different then.

That would make a larger percentage of the settlers first-generation settlers for sure.

[Snee]

Found a site which appears to be very biased, but I think these numbers sound familiar:

Israel did not begin to build large numbers of settlements until after 1977. That is also when Egypt negotiated peace. Israel froze settlement building afterward in the hope that other Arab states would follow Egypt's example, none did.

Israel built more settlements in the 1980's and 1990's; nevertheless, King Hussein made peace with Israel, and settlements were not an issue.

source

Don't read the rest of it as pure facts tho'.
1977, not 1967, and I had it wrong anyway.

This still leaves room for a lot of settlers to not having been involved in any theft, but, I'd say this looks worse than I thought.

[tralalala]

Snny...

The Occupation happened in 1967.

Most of the "settlers" arrived long after that.

They went there for a specific purpose and knew the land didnt belong to Israel in any legal terms. They went anyway.

"Settlers" is being used one way here too.

There are Arab "settlers" of Jewish land not in Israel, when Jews evacuated the surrounding land in 1948 and in 1967 to avoid the fighting.

I have the same argument to them.. tough, its not yours.

There are also Jewish Palestinians. Jews have been in Palestine a long time, and are recognised by the Palestinian Authority as being Palestinian if there prior to 1948.

@ Tralalala

The Arabs were the ones to start each and every one of the wars Israel has fought since 1947.

Crap.

Israel still bombs and threatens to bomb the smaller Arab nations surrounding it on a regular basis.

They also started the 1967 6 day war.

The argument that Arab nations were gathering Military Vehicles on the border doesnt wash, you attacked them.

That argument gives Arab Nations the excuse to attack you now, as Israeli forces are currently massed on the Border of the Gaza Strip.. If they do, then they will have attacked you.

Think you got some wrong stuff here mate:

Who does Israel threaten to bomb? Small Arab nations? Which ones??

Israel shot the first gun and the last in the 6 day war.
You say "we attacked first so we are to blame". Rat-Faced: They were gathering all their army forces (Egypt, Jordan and Syria as one) to attack Israel from three different places, and, literally drive us into the sea.






Try for one moment to think what would have happened if Israel did not attack first.......



Devastation, a second Holocaust.

No Jews left,



And most importantly - no tralalala/Rafi for FST!!!!!!!




About your second point saying the Arabs can attack us now - they have attacked since.... in 1973 the Yom Kippur war started, Israel screwed up, 2000 soldiers were killed. Israel however managed to stop the attack and managed to get the upper hand of the war (they did not lose any land of what they actually got on 67).
Since, there have also been 2 Intifadahs, one of which is still going on.

So, the Arabs, are getting what you call revenge, what I call a pathetic attempt to wash up their loss in previouse war.

You can call it whatever you want, either way, it's the same......