Innocent shooting

[lynx]

The anti-suicide bomber tactics which teams were sent to Israel to learn. If you wish to dispute that I suggest you take it up with John Stevens, former Met Police Commissioner, since he is the one who claims he sent the teams.

As to those who now appear willing to accept these tactics, I suggest you read some of the threads regarding the Israel/Palestine conflict. I'm not going to trawl through them. If you can't work out for yourself those who have spoken out against them in the past then you are unlikely to take my word for it so there's little point.

I am amazed at how many of those who have spoken out against Israeli tactics seem so willing to accept them when their own country is exposed to the same sort of threats.

Another flawed comparison.

They are two entirely different situations.

Different in what way? Are you now suggesting that it is ok for British police to gun people down in the street, but not ok for Israelis to do the same against Palestinians?
Your logic escapes me.

Duuuuh...then how is it different when it happens in America and non-terrorist related.

The fella was perceived as a real threat. It ain't rocket science.

If the police have guns drawn and I go for my wallet in my coat, I will probably be shot.

You generalize "British police gunning people down in the street" like a typical sensationalist.

To add to that. I never said it wasn't ok for Israeli's to do it.
If a grown ass Palestinian man simply wants to throw rocks at Israeli soldiers, I think he knows what may happen.

It's a good job that being afraid of people brandishing guns in an area known for armed muggings isn't a capital offence. Oops, maybe it is now.

In the US it is quite normal for police to be armed, but that's not the case in the UK. So, seeing someone waving a gun here you would assume that they were NOT police officers. It is essential in a situation like this that the armed officers should be in uniform so that there is NO doubt who they are.

Stockwell tube station is next to the A3, one of the busiest roads in London. Making yourself heard there is likely to be difficult at the best of times, and this was rush hour, so any warnings would at best have been garbled. Once running and inside the tube station it would be virtually impossible to hear a warning, if one was given, and no eye-witness on the train reported hearing a warning. However, the shoot-to-kill policy, codenamed Operation Kratos, does not require a warning to be given.

But the thrust of the post that you queried was not about the tactics employed, but about the duality of the opinions expressed by others, and I don't just mean on this board.

[Busyman]

The anti-suicide bomber tactics which teams were sent to Israel to learn. If you wish to dispute that I suggest you take it up with John Stevens, former Met Police Commissioner, since he is the one who claims he sent the teams.

As to those who now appear willing to accept these tactics, I suggest you read some of the threads regarding the Israel/Palestine conflict. I'm not going to trawl through them. If you can't work out for yourself those who have spoken out against them in the past then you are unlikely to take my word for it so there's little point.



Another flawed comparison.

They are two entirely different situations.

Different in what way? Are you now suggesting that it is ok for British police to gun people down in the street, but not ok for Israelis to do the same against Palestinians?
Your logic escapes me.

Duuuuh...then how is it different when it happens in America and non-terrorist related.

The fella was perceived as a real threat. It ain't rocket science.

If the police have guns drawn and I go for my wallet in my coat, I will probably be shot.

You generalize "British police gunning people down in the street" like a typical sensationalist.

To add to that. I never said it wasn't ok for Israeli's to do it.
If a grown ass Palestinian man simply wants to throw rocks at Israeli soldiers, I think he knows what may happen.

It's a good job that being afraid of people brandishing guns in an area known for armed muggings isn't a capital offence. Oops, maybe it is now.

In the US it is quite normal for police to be armed, but that's not the case in the UK. So, seeing someone waving a gun here you would assume that they were NOT police officers. It is essential in a situation like this that the armed officers should be in uniform so that there is NO doubt who they are.

Stockwell tube station is next to the A3, one of the busiest roads in London. Making yourself heard there is likely to be difficult at the best of times, and this was rush hour, so any warnings would at best have been garbled. Once running and inside the tube station it would be virtually impossible to hear a warning, if one was given, and no eye-witness on the train reported hearing a warning. However, the shoot-to-kill policy, codenamed Operation Kratos, does not require a warning to be given.

But the thrust of the post that you queried was not about the tactics employed, but about the duality of the opinions expressed by others, and I don't just mean on this board.

Riiight, maybe he didn't hear that there was heightened security at the stations then, you know with a recently terrorist bombing and whatnot.

It sounds like armedanybody is odd over there so recent terrorist bombings + armed white men = stop.

Oh if he didn't hear them, how did he know they were after him?
I don't automatically assume that a police car with blazing lights near me is after me.

Personally, I think he was testing security and it backfired.

People say he had wires hanging from his coat. What electrician packs wires in their pocket? I work for the telephone company and it's on a spool.

I dan't put errant clippangs in me poeckets.

[JPaul]

Which particular tactics would you describe as being "Israeli tactics", as opposed to any other type of tactics.

Oh and whilst we are on it, who are you talking about when you say "I am amazed at how many of those who have spoken out against Israeli tactics seem so willing to accept them when their own country is exposed to the same sort of threats"

I am genuinely intrigued, as I have not noted the same phenomenon. Who are these dissenters of which you speak.

The anti-suicide bomber tactics which teams were sent to Israel to learn. If you wish to dispute that I suggest you take it up with John Stevens, former Met Police Commissioner, since he is the one who claims he sent the teams.

As to those who now appear willing to accept these tactics, I suggest you read some of the threads regarding the Israel/Palestine conflict. I'm not going to trawl through them. If you can't work out for yourself those who have spoken out against them in the past then you are unlikely to take my word for it so there's little point.

Re the first part, a misunderstanding by me, I think. You call them "Israeli Tactics" because your Police learned them from the Israelis, rather than meaning that they were tactics used only by the Israeli Police. Is that a more accurate reading of your meaning.

Re the second part, I have no more inclination to trawl thro' threads to find such people than you do. I simply felt that as you had made the comment you would have some people in mind. I couldn't think of anyone who rejected the approach when used in Israel, but supported it when used in England. If you can't think of anyone pas de problem.

[lynx]

Tactics learned in Israel/tactics used by Israeli security forces/Israeli tacics. Do you really feel there is a difference? Or are you just being picky about a choice of words?

As for people who have shown duality in their opinions on such tactics, I can think of plenty both on and off this board, and I'm pretty sure you can too, which is why I'm not going to bother to react to that comment.

[DanB]

Why is it bad to use 'Israeli' tactics to kill suicide bombers? Is it cos its related to Israel we should feel bad?

If the police started tazering people for not geting out of their cars when asked would we then moan about them using American tactics?

Heck, if the bloke had gone home when his visa had run out he would be safe and alive today sunning it up in Brazil

[manker]

Let that be a lesson to all other foreigners who out-stay their visas

[DanB]

Let that be a lesson to all other foreigners who out-stay their visas

You know that

Seriously though we wouldn't be in half the pickle we are now if we actually had decent immigration and border controls. 500,000 unknown potential terrorists, its all good

[manker]

Let that be a lesson to all other foreigners who out-stay their visas

You know that

Seriously though we wouldn't be in half the pickle we are now if we actually had decent immigration and border controls. 500,000 unknown potential terrorists, its all good

Yeah, but then my mate Wal from the chippy wouldn't be my mate

Aside from that important factor - we'd be a pretty crap country. I think that the diversity we have is great. To lose that because we think we might be safer is not a trade off I'd be willing to make.

How about we stop joining in with wars that don't concern us, instead.

[DanB]

Diversity is great, as long they are actually contributing.

[manker]

You obviously haven't tried Wal's fish and Chips