The Welfare State

**Chip Monk** · 05-20-2006, 01:20 PM

ahctlucabbuS,

Excellent post, I enjoyed reading that.

**ahctlucabbuS** · 05-20-2006, 06:47 PM

Thank you.

Did I silence all, or were the subject simply exhausted?

**Busyman™** · 05-22-2006, 09:27 PM

Originally Posted by ahctlucabbuS

Originally Posted by Busyman

As I said before, one step is to administer a birth control shot to women on welfare. They wanna get on their feet? Don't exacerbate the problem getting knocked up while off their feet.

Birth control shots? I take it these won't be voluntary... I take it "land of the free" should only apply as long as your income meets a certain standard? It's quite an obvious thing to say, but.... more often than not people are on welfare for a reason. Naturally their situation may foster depression, worthlessness, and even apathy - among other things. Often the problem is just as much within the system as within the person. Instead of suggesting horrendous non-humanitarian practices like birth control shots and what not, these people should be helped to take a step up from their situation. What you're suggesting would certainly do no good at all...

Of course there are freeloaders in every society, but assuming as a rule that people on welfare, or people of general marginality are such seems quite far fetched imo.

I guess it comes down to the question if one assumes people are inherently good, or if they're inherently bad. Of course that assumtion doesn't take into account outer factors. What I'm trying to say is that often people seems so eager in blaming the victim that they forget about the larger society in which that person belongs. For instance, it's all too easy to blame the homeless for his plight. By doing so you're implying that you are in control of your destiny, just as the homeless rotting on the street were responsible for his faith - while of course disregarding the rules of the game in which we all are a part; Society.

So, instead of beeing so eager at blaming the victim, perhaps you should take a look at the higher order of things, and try to change that which do not work. Regarding the homeless in the US, personally I think you should all quit assuming that he choose to live like an animal, and face the facts staring you in the face; Most of them obviously have problems. I guess it's an inevitable side effect of living in an extreme individualistic society...

Huh?

Did you read what I wrote...at all...ta lla?

Who said about blaming the victim? Who said folks on welfare are victims?

The birth control shots would be voluntary. How could they not be?

Do you think the government would tie the woman down, kicking and screaming, jab her with a needle.....then hand her a welfare check?

So say gubment doesn't give the birth control shot, she's getting welfare checks, and then.......she has a baby.

Now she has a harder time going to work and the gubment pays more money. She's outta commision (so to speak) even longer and will receive more money for a longer period of time.

That seems to works great now.

Nice going.

**Seedler** · 05-22-2006, 11:35 PM

Protest and cut the welfare money down to $5/month.

**SpatulaGeekGirl** · 05-23-2006, 07:38 AM

Protest! Protest! Freedom for the masses!!

**ahctlucabbuS** · 05-23-2006, 12:35 PM

Originally Posted by Busyman™

Huh?

Did you read what I wrote...at all...ta lla?

Who said about blaming the victim? Who said folks on welfare are victims?

The birth control shots would be voluntary. How could they not be?

Do you think the government would tie the woman down, kicking and screaming, jab her with a needle.....then hand her a welfare check?

So say gubment doesn't give the birth control shot, she's getting welfare checks, and then.......she has a baby.

Now she has a harder time going to work and the gubment pays more money. She's outta commision (so to speak) even longer and will receive more money for a longer period of time.

That seems to works great now.

Nice going.

I am guilty of giving food to bums whenever they say they are hungry. I wish I would stop that shit. I NEVER give money (anymore). I did when I was much younger.

Did you read what you wrote? My blaming the victim comment were aimed at that quote. You didn't flat out say you were blaming the victim, true.... However it's easy to infer so, with your comment in the context of this thread (freeloaders). You're obviously not considering possible outer factors. How many were mentally ill again? Right, I forgot, you think mental illness is a form of voluntary character flaw.

I recognise some people abuse the system, but the problem with this thread, as I've hinted to, is that people are far too eager to generalise and condemn a system based solely on those few individuals. A discussion on the subject is all good (and I'm all for fairness in the system), but don't degrade people of sincere marginality. The system is there as a safety net, and it would be a far cruder world to live in without it.

Regarding the homeless, if nothing you should open your pockets (more mental health facilities for instance). Instead you're spending how much on the military, and other money sinks that far exceeds whatever you're wrongly handing to freeloaders.

As for birth control shots. It can't possibly be voluntary if the woman is refused the check should she not comply, now can it? It may be passive force, but you're still taking her freedom. As I stated, it would end up with segregation based on income.

Then again, most governments in the western world is concerned with raising the number of births. So, you should only be so lucky to have a kid born to a mother on welfare, who will wipe your ass a few years down the road.

**Busyman™** · 05-23-2006, 07:53 PM

Originally Posted by ahctlucabbuS

I am guilty of giving food to bums whenever they say they are hungry. I wish I would stop that shit. I NEVER give money (anymore). I did when I was much younger.

Did you read what you wrote? My blaming the victim comment were aimed at that quote. You didn't flat out say you were blaming the victim, true.... However it's easy to infer so, with your comment in the context of this thread (freeloaders). You're obviously not considering possible outer factors. How many were mentally ill again? Right, I forgot, you think mental illness is a form of voluntary character flaw.

So now you're making up stuff regarding mental illness. Where'd you get that shit from?
You still haven't explained how I inferred that a female welfare recipient is being blamed by taking a birth control shot. The shot has no bearing on whether she's a freeloader or not. That's something you made up.

I recognise some people abuse the system, but the problem with this thread, as I've hinted to, is that people are far too eager to generalise and condemn a system based solely on those few individuals. A discussion on the subject is all good (and I'm all for fairness in the system), but don't degrade people of sincere marginality. The system is there as a safety net, and it would be a far cruder world to live in without it.

I degraded no one of sincere marginality. The system in America is not supposed to be a generational source of income. It is supposed to be there to get folks jump started and out of the system.

Regarding the homeless, if nothing you should open your pockets (more mental health facilities for instance). Instead you're spending how much on the military, and other money sinks that far exceeds whatever you're wrongly handing to freeloaders.

Again, for those who can work then want to work......

As for birth control shots. It can't possibly be voluntary if the woman is refused the check should she not comply, now can it? It may be passive force, but you're still taking her freedom. As I stated, it would end up with segregation based on income.

I've explained how it is voluntary. Checks from the government should not be a basic tenet of life, ya know. It is not a basic freedom of life to draw welfare will-nilly with no rules. That line of thinking is why the system is shit.

Then again, most governments in the western world is concerned with raising the number of births. So, you should only be so lucky to have a kid born to a mother on welfare, who will wipe your ass a few years down the road.

Not I, said the rabbit.

If anything, sparsely populated areas need to be built up. Just the southern part of my county alone is getting 1800+ new homes built. We don't need to raise the number of births.

You sorta miss the point in spouting off some classism statements. A woman on welfare with children has a harder time than one without. Now I'm not saying if a woman already has a child that she should not receive welfare. I'm saying that the government should try to ensure that a woman on welfare is not making her own problem worse (and ours, the taxpayers) by having kids while trying to get on her feet.

That is one of main points of the welfare system. It is to help those that are able bodied, do for themselves.

I think governement should be able to regulate welfare in this manner....especially when it increases in length and amount if it wasn't regulated.

What can a woman say? "I should be able to have kids while on welfare and receive more welfare for those kids."

Nuh-uh.

Every woman I know personally that either had a kid when they were young and/or struggling really bad financially has told me that having a kid under those circumstances slowed them down even though their child was a blessing and most of these woman never hit the welfare system.

They either had family to fall back on or worked umpteen jobs.

I can't imagine a logical defense for a woman in the system.