Will the US or Israel attack Iran?

[j2k4]

I think, first of all, that John Pilger qualifies as an ex-pat-Australian-transplant-leftist-flake, and his opinions are certainly no more worthwhile than anyone else's; mine, for example, or Billy's.

He represents one extreme, and no more effectively then his opposite, whomever that might be.

Hmmm.

I am compelled to start another thread, using a few cut-and-paste tidbits I've read lately...

[Ava Estelle]

How the hell can you say, that leaving the "occupied territories ..

You didn't finish this sentence, but I take it you mean how can leaving the occupied territories bring peace?

Where is the trouble now? Where are the confrontations? Where are the barriers? Where are the roadblocks? Where are the Palestinian houses being demolished? Where are the orchards and olive groves being razed to the ground? Where are the illegal settlements? Are they in Israel or the Palestinian Territories? We hear a lot about Israel "defending" itself against Palestinians, without mentioning that they are "defending" themselves on illegally occupied land.

The key to peace is the 1967 borders, simple, everyone has said so, including Hamas. The biggest problem for Israel is the right-wing religious arseholes whose agenda is to clear the whole of 'Greater Israel' of Arabs, unfortunately no-one can form a government without them. In an example of gross double standards, not unusual in this conflict, these religious nutcases aren't made to accept Palestine's right to exist, yet the legally elected government of the Palestinians are being starved into accepting Israel's right to exist. The fact that they have accepted an Israeli state behind the 1967 borders mean nothing, they are expected to accept Israel unconditionally, which, to Israel, means the occupied territories also.

I think, first of all, that John Pilger qualifies as an ex-pat-Australian-transplant-leftist-flake, and his opinions are certainly no more worthwhile than anyone else's; mine, for example, or Billy's.

Are you up for a little challenge j2?

I challenge you to go to Pilger's site and read his articles, then find one you actually agree with, just to prove you're capable of putting your right wing prejudices to one side.

John Pilger

[tralalala]

Iran will erase Israel, I hope to

Do you really? And why's that? What have I done to deserve being killed? Being a Jew? Being in a country that's doing better than yours? Eh?
It's sad that people like you listen to freaking fucked up leaders like Ahmadinejad who seems to be obsessed with Israel and Jews just like Hitler was.. and look what happened to him.......



In response to Ava:
You're right.. The religious parties have power here.. a known fact for the past few decades, but that doesn't mean that you could encourage the other parties to handle the talks.
You say Israel is still demolishing houses... Afraid not.
The olive trees being "razed to the ground" - That's what the settlers do.. sort of their own counterattack to the terrorists.. Not acceptable though I'll tell you that.. they are nutters.. honestly.. I've seen them personally.
Unfortunately, abroad, you only get half of the picture.. You can't watch the Palestinian footage and decide that's it and we'll go abiding that footage. You need to see the whole story. Watch both Israeli and Palestinian news, then decide who's right/wrong or who's brainwashing etc.. You have to understand that Israelis are far more liberal than any other Muslim/Arab country around.. Thus we are developing faster (technologically.. socially..).


You need the whole, not half.




Another note to 1Man: Hope you get a pole stuck up your ass like Ahmadinejad will when he goes to far.

[Ava Estelle]

In response to Ava:
You're right.. The religious parties have power here.. a known fact for the past few decades, but that doesn't mean that you could encourage the other parties to handle the talks.

What does that mean? Without the religious, non-working, non-tax paying nutcases, there would be a chance of decent peace negotiations, or are you saying there are no politicians in Israel capable of bringing peace?

You say Israel is still demolishing houses... Afraid not.

They're not demolishing houses still? Are you serious? Israeli soldiers demolished homes in three Palestinian villages near bypass road 317 on 14 February, it's a common occurrence. Ask a Palestinian what it's like getting a permit to build in East Jerusalem, then ask what happens to their houses if they build on their own land without a permit, and who then claims the land.

The Israeli Committee Against House Demolitions

The olive trees being "razed to the ground" - That's what the settlers do.. sort of their own counterattack to the terrorists..

The settlers are Israeli, supported by the Israeli government and protected by the Israeli army, don't play semantics with this.

Unfortunately, abroad, you only get half of the picture.. You can't watch the Palestinian footage and decide that's it and we'll go abiding that footage. You need to see the whole story. Watch both Israeli and Palestinian news, then decide who's right/wrong or who's brainwashing etc..

It's not easy to watch both sides because the majority of Western media, especially US media, is hugely biased towards Israel. Getting Israel's side of the story is easy, it's getting to the truth that takes some digging.

If you were really interested in peace you would refuse to serve your military service in the occupied territories.

[tralalala]

Ever watched the BBC? Ever seen Keith Graves on Sky..?

The settlers are supported by the extreme right wingers... If it were up to the left wingers, or me, they would have been out of there and behind bars ages ago.. But that's just me.

Can you build anywhere in the US/UK without getting a permit? Seriously asking.
If only you saw how the Arabs build their villages around Israel and in the PA.. It's like a maze (That has nothing to do with the above question.. just a side note).

I never said that without the religious you cannot have peace.. it's just that for peace you need a majority in the parliament which isn't the case as of yet..



I won't need to refuse that type of service.. I'm going to be a pilot I had my first call-up on Tuesday.. was OK, got the highest medical profile.. did the IQ examintaions which went fine, and am hoping to get a letter inviting me for further examinations to get into the Air Force

[Barbarossa]

I won't need to refuse that type of service.. I'm going to be a pilot

Well done.

Now what will you do if you get asked to fly the plane carrying the atom bomb to drop on Tehran?

[j2k4]

Are you up for a little challenge j2?

I challenge you to go to Pilger's site and read his articles, then find one you actually agree with, just to prove you're capable of putting your right wing prejudices to one side.

John Pilger

I'll do it when I have time; for now, I've got a little challenge for you:

Explain coherently why in my case it is a benighted "right-wing prejudice", but in your case it is the vision of the anointed?

[Ava Estelle]

Explain coherently why in my case it is a benighted "right-wing prejudice", but in your case it is the vision of the anointed?

Well it's nice of you to bestow that title on me, but that's not how I see it, and my left-wing mates call me right of centre, I see things that I don't consider fair, and don't give a fuck who I upset by pointing them out.

[Ava Estelle]

Ever watched the BBC? Ever seen Keith Graves on Sky..?

I'm in Australia, and don't get the BBC or Sky.

Can you build anywhere in the US/UK without getting a permit? Seriously asking.

We're talking about the Israeli government telling Palestinians in OCCUPIED East Jerusalem that they need a permit to build on their own land. When they apply for permits they are ignored. When they build on their own land they are demolished and the land confiscated.

[tralalala]

@Barbarosa: If I am sent on a mission to bomb Tehran.. I'll do it.

@Ava: If you see East Jerusalem as "illegally occupied territories", then, in your sense, 85% of the Israeli state is illegally "owned"... Sorry, but during wars things change, and during peace, things change. East Jerusalem is part of the state of Israel.. Fact. People in East Jerusalem get health service, get paid insurance, have a blue I.D card (meaning you are a citizen of Israel), therefor, you will also need a permit to build there, just as you need a permit to build anywhere else in Israel. The irony here is that some bigots in East Jerusalem, are not only living on Israeli insurance money, but also are part of the Palestinian parliament (Mohammed Abu-Tir for instance). If they had to choose whether to be part of Israel, or live under Palestinian government? I'm almost positive they would choose the first option.
So, that's about East Jerusalem (which will be given back as part of a peace treaty, but as of now it's still Israel.. just like the Golan Heights).


And just to let you know.. BBC, and the Sky correspondent to the Middle East (Keith Graves), show the Israelis as the "bad guys" and the Palestinians as the "poor people getting hit for doing nothing".. It's not all showing Israel in the brighter light.