If your Foetus is diagnosed with down syndrome do you Abort?

[bigboab]

Good post.
I hope that in the future, with improved genetic knowledge, they will be able to warn people before conception. That would make everyones answer to this question having to be viewed from a different prospective.

[j2k4]

Fair?

By whose standards?

There are many people who live better lives than you or I; to which of them would you extend the authority to end your life because you are a "burden to others"?

It sounds like you've discovered the solution to African poverty.

The solution to African poverty?
What about the solution to to the american poverty?
If you are poor, you can make it better, if you are mentally retarded, your life will always be hell, there is nothing you can do about it.
Don't talk to me about standards, I work with people with mental retardation and their life has not sense.

I voted no clue as this decision is very individualized. As for my current rationale, don't abort the baby. Who am I to judge how satisfied the baby will be without giving it a chance?

And do you think it is fair, those babies will be abondone and abused?
Those people end up in group homes where workers treat them like dirt, go to day programs where nobody gives a crap about them.
How satisfied will be a person that has no control over his/her life, where everything is been done for them, people that don't have any kind of freedom?
I don't think it is fair to bring a person like that to this world, when you know their life is going to be hell, how responsible is that?

Hell?

Compared to what?

So you think mentally/emotionally impaired people aren't equipped to properly appreciate life (as you define it) and so should be killed in the womb.

Way back when, I supervised three community-based ventures to accomodate an effort aimed at bringing many of these people out of state institutions and into group homes housing between six and twelve residents.

My work varied from writing policy to working directly with these people, whose disabilities ranged from severe to almost debilitating.

I and those I worked with dedicated ourselves to improving the lives of these people, and we observed the progress they made and the joy they experienced.

If you mean to say that you work in the field, and hold the attitude you do, perhaps you'd better look for another line of work.

[pentomato]

The solution to African poverty?
What about the solution to to the american poverty?
If you are poor, you can make it better, if you are mentally retarded, your life will always be hell, there is nothing you can do about it.
Don't talk to me about standards, I work with people with mental retardation and their life has not sense.

I voted no clue as this decision is very individualized. As for my current rationale, don't abort the baby. Who am I to judge how satisfied the baby will be without giving it a chance?

And do you think it is fair, those babies will be abondone and abused?
Those people end up in group homes where workers treat them like dirt, go to day programs where nobody gives a crap about them.
How satisfied will be a person that has no control over his/her life, where everything is been done for them, people that don't have any kind of freedom?
I don't think it is fair to bring a person like that to this world, when you know their life is going to be hell, how responsible is that?

Hell?

Compared to what?

So you think mentally/emotionally impaired people aren't equipped to properly appreciate life (as you define it) and so should be killed in the womb.

Way back when, I supervised three community-based ventures to accomodate an effort aimed at bringing many of these people out of state institutions and into group homes housing between six and twelve residents.

My work varied from writing policy to working directly with these people, whose disabilities ranged from severe to almost debilitating.

I and those I worked with dedicated ourselves to improving the lives of these people, and we observed the progress they made and the joy they experienced.

If you mean to say that you work in the field, and hold the attitude you do, perhaps you'd better look for another line of work.

Killing what in the womb? A malignant tumor is alive to, should we leave it alone because of a few alive cells? Who are you to play GOD?
Mentally/emotionally people feel, love like you and I, but they can't defend theirselves in the real world.
These people haven't made any progress, you call progress to 12 people living in a house, knowing they might be abused?
Living in a house for them, it is the samething that not living at all, the only difference between a hospital and those group homes is that jobs are been created now.
I hate it when you see a person that has been tied up for hours, (something illegal) when their lunch is a few pieces of bread and they don't have a way to fight for their rights, when they are been push around, when their wrists are burn from those ropes they use on them in those houses, when they are been physically hurt and they can't talk.
And you are telling me we have made progress with these people? Get down from your cloud, because the only progress here is job creation, these peoples rights are worst than have ever been.
And the feeling of talking to an investigator to end this people suffering is amazing, it is worthwhile.
Don't you preach to me about their living conditions, you have done a terrible job if you worked in this field, you forgot that they not only don't know their rights, but they can't understand and assimilate what's going on with them and why, and the saddest part is, they can't fight back.
So your reasoning to bring somebody to this world, to suffer and be abuse in theory is beautiful, but in reality people like you create the abuse they have to endure in the course of their lives and all for what? Abort or not your reasoning doesn't make any sense, change jobs because you haven't help these people at all.

[j2k4]

I voted no clue as this decision is very individualized. As for my current rationale, don't abort the baby. Who am I to judge how satisfied the baby will be without giving it a chance?

And do you think it is fair, those babies will be abondone and abused?
Those people end up in group homes where workers treat them like dirt, go to day programs where nobody gives a crap about them.
How satisfied will be a person that has no control over his/her life, where everything is been done for them, people that don't have any kind of freedom?
I don't think it is fair to bring a person like that to this world, when you know their life is going to be hell, how responsible is that?

Hell?

Compared to what?

So you think mentally/emotionally impaired people aren't equipped to properly appreciate life (as you define it) and so should be killed in the womb.

Way back when, I supervised three community-based ventures to accomodate an effort aimed at bringing many of these people out of state institutions and into group homes housing between six and twelve residents.

My work varied from writing policy to working directly with these people, whose disabilities ranged from severe to almost debilitating.

I and those I worked with dedicated ourselves to improving the lives of these people, and we observed the progress they made and the joy they experienced.

If you mean to say that you work in the field, and hold the attitude you do, perhaps you'd better look for another line of work.

Killing what in the womb? A malignant tumor is alive to, should we leave it alone because of a few alive cells? Who are you to play GOD?
Mentally/emotionally people feel, love like you and I, but they can't defend theirselves in the real world.
These people haven't made any progress, you call progress to 12 people living in a house, knowing they might be abused?
Living in a house for them, it is the samething that not living at all, the only difference between a hospital and those group homes is that jobs are been created now.
I hate it when you see a person that has been tied up for hours, (something illegal) when their lunch is a few pieces of bread and they don't have a way to fight for their rights, when they are been push around, when their wrists are burn from those ropes they use on them in those houses, when they are been physically hurt and they can't talk.
And you are telling me we have made progress with these people? Get down from your cloud, because the only progress here is job creation, these peoples rights are worst than have ever been.
And the feeling of talking to an investigator to end this people suffering is amazing, it is worthwhile.
Don't you preach to me about their living conditions, you have done a terrible job if you worked in this field, you forgot that they not only don't know their rights, but they can't understand and assimilate what's going on with them and why, and the saddest part is, they can't fight back.
So your reasoning to bring somebody to this world, to suffer and be abuse in theory is beautiful, but in reality people like you create the abuse they have to endure in the course of their lives and all for what? Abort or not your reasoning doesn't make any sense, change jobs because you haven't help these people at all.

So, then, as you say, better to kill them, right?

Tell me - why shouldn't they be killed postpartum?

Why shouldn't (by your own reasoning) mentally and emotionally impaired people be put out of their (your) misery?

[Snee]

Oh, and tell Ignas the cool part of the internets wishes him luck on the whole baby thing, Zed.

[Santa]

Ignas's kid is going to be a boy. Release date june.

The reason i asked this question is simply because i would like to read your thoughts on this, because....

2 weeks ago my wife and i went to do the scan, the embryo had not developed past 6 weeks. (no blood circulation(no vida) My wife was in her 11th week of pregnancy. The embryo was removed surgically.

Glad it happened early. But still all the mental and emotional preparation with a pregnancy and this to happen is absolutely tragic.

I will not delve on the emotional after effects of having a miscarriage.
But reading about everything that can go wrong in a pregnancy is not good for anything. Just causes worry. Problem is that they have found out so many things that can "prepare" you to have the perfectly developed child, for both men and women, the consequence is that you might end up blaming yourself...

anyway
It basically means more sex.

& Makes us love 50% even more.

[j2k4]

Oh, and tell Ignas the cool part of the internets wishes him luck on the whole baby thing, Zed.

My best wishes as well, and my sincerest apologies for going without thought in the direction this thread went.

Ignas's kid is going to be a boy. Release date june.

The reason i asked this question is simply because i would like to read your thoughts on this, because....

2 weeks ago my wife and i went to do the scan, the embryo had not developed past 6 weeks. (no blood circulation(no vida) My wife was in her 11th week of pregnancy. The embryo was removed surgically.

Glad it happened early. But still all the mental and emotional preparation with a pregnancy and this to happen is absolutely tragic.

I will not delve on the emotional after effects of having a miscarriage.
But reading about everything that can go wrong in a pregnancy is not good for anything. Just causes worry. Problem is that they have found out so many things that can "prepare" you to have the perfectly developed child, for both men and women, the consequence is that you might end up blaming yourself...

anyway
It basically means more sex.

& Makes us love 50% even more.

So sorry for your loss.

Never had to go though that; I think I'd have feared for my sanity.

[pentomato]

And do you think it is fair, those babies will be abondone and abused?
Those people end up in group homes where workers treat them like dirt, go to day programs where nobody gives a crap about them.
How satisfied will be a person that has no control over his/her life, where everything is been done for them, people that don't have any kind of freedom?
I don't think it is fair to bring a person like that to this world, when you know their life is going to be hell, how responsible is that?

Hell?

Compared to what?

So you think mentally/emotionally impaired people aren't equipped to properly appreciate life (as you define it) and so should be killed in the womb.

Way back when, I supervised three community-based ventures to accomodate an effort aimed at bringing many of these people out of state institutions and into group homes housing between six and twelve residents.

My work varied from writing policy to working directly with these people, whose disabilities ranged from severe to almost debilitating.

I and those I worked with dedicated ourselves to improving the lives of these people, and we observed the progress they made and the joy they experienced.

If you mean to say that you work in the field, and hold the attitude you do, perhaps you'd better look for another line of work.

Killing what in the womb? A malignant tumor is alive to, should we leave it alone because of a few alive cells? Who are you to play GOD?
Mentally/emotionally people feel, love like you and I, but they can't defend theirselves in the real world.
These people haven't made any progress, you call progress to 12 people living in a house, knowing they might be abused?
Living in a house for them, it is the samething that not living at all, the only difference between a hospital and those group homes is that jobs are been created now.
I hate it when you see a person that has been tied up for hours, (something illegal) when their lunch is a few pieces of bread and they don't have a way to fight for their rights, when they are been push around, when their wrists are burn from those ropes they use on them in those houses, when they are been physically hurt and they can't talk.
And you are telling me we have made progress with these people? Get down from your cloud, because the only progress here is job creation, these peoples rights are worst than have ever been.
And the feeling of talking to an investigator to end this people suffering is amazing, it is worthwhile.
Don't you preach to me about their living conditions, you have done a terrible job if you worked in this field, you forgot that they not only don't know their rights, but they can't understand and assimilate what's going on with them and why, and the saddest part is, they can't fight back.
So your reasoning to bring somebody to this world, to suffer and be abuse in theory is beautiful, but in reality people like you create the abuse they have to endure in the course of their lives and all for what? Abort or not your reasoning doesn't make any sense, change jobs because you haven't help these people at all.

So, then, as you say, better to kill them, right?

Tell me - why shouldn't they be killed postpartum?

Why shouldn't (by your own reasoning) mentally and emotionally impaired people be put out of their (your) misery?[/quote]

That way we woudln'd have a mentally retarded president in the White House again, eight years is enough.

[Santa]

Why is that whenever i go to the kindergarten to pick up my kid, and i see the one girl with Down i instantly feel pity?
Is that wrong?
Yes it is.
Could be a form of racist elitism. das uber mensk we are. We feel pity on those who do not have what we have, whether physically, socially, emotionally, financially. Sad form of judgement.
Our Judging of others is the issue here.

[j2k4]

Hell?

Compared to what?

So you think mentally/emotionally impaired people aren't equipped to properly appreciate life (as you define it) and so should be killed in the womb.

Way back when, I supervised three community-based ventures to accomodate an effort aimed at bringing many of these people out of state institutions and into group homes housing between six and twelve residents.

My work varied from writing policy to working directly with these people, whose disabilities ranged from severe to almost debilitating.

I and those I worked with dedicated ourselves to improving the lives of these people, and we observed the progress they made and the joy they experienced.

If you mean to say that you work in the field, and hold the attitude you do, perhaps you'd better look for another line of work.

Killing what in the womb? A malignant tumor is alive to, should we leave it alone because of a few alive cells? Who are you to play GOD?
Mentally/emotionally people feel, love like you and I, but they can't defend theirselves in the real world.
These people haven't made any progress, you call progress to 12 people living in a house, knowing they might be abused?
Living in a house for them, it is the samething that not living at all, the only difference between a hospital and those group homes is that jobs are been created now.
I hate it when you see a person that has been tied up for hours, (something illegal) when their lunch is a few pieces of bread and they don't have a way to fight for their rights, when they are been push around, when their wrists are burn from those ropes they use on them in those houses, when they are been physically hurt and they can't talk.
And you are telling me we have made progress with these people? Get down from your cloud, because the only progress here is job creation, these peoples rights are worst than have ever been.
And the feeling of talking to an investigator to end this people suffering is amazing, it is worthwhile.
Don't you preach to me about their living conditions, you have done a terrible job if you worked in this field, you forgot that they not only don't know their rights, but they can't understand and assimilate what's going on with them and why, and the saddest part is, they can't fight back.
So your reasoning to bring somebody to this world, to suffer and be abuse in theory is beautiful, but in reality people like you create the abuse they have to endure in the course of their lives and all for what? Abort or not your reasoning doesn't make any sense, change jobs because you haven't help these people at all.

So, then, as you say, better to kill them, right?

Tell me - why shouldn't they be killed postpartum?

Why shouldn't (by your own reasoning) mentally and emotionally impaired people be put out of their (your) misery?

That way we woudln'd have a mentally retarded president in the White House again, eight years is enough.

This is how your post should look.

Learn how to edit properly, dumbfuck.

You're not allowed to mix your unrelenting and unremitting idiocy with my postage.

If you can't do better than that, get your narrow ass back to the lounge.