Ireland

[Billy_Dean]

I look forward to your views Chalice, please don't keep us in suspenders for too long.


B)

[bigboab]

I think if I was living in Northern Ireland I would gladly vote for an United Ireland. At the rate the UK is going down the hill there is no future being part of it.

To lighten things up a bit. I like the idea of the Welsh assembly:-

It starts of with prayers, then a nice policeman comes along and talks about road safety.

[chalice]

From my living room window, as I write, I can see, slash-daubed in white on the gable wall of the opposite house, the acronym "FTPIRA". Fissured across that in red is an imposing "FTH HOODS WILL BE SHOT". The former describes copulation with a paramilitary organisation. The latter represents much the same thing, this time the recipients being adolescent car thieves. From my bedroom window, at night, I can hear, like some insane cockerel, the staccato screech of tyre on tarmacadam. I see, emerge from streetlight to streetlight, short, spiky hurling-bats crutching tall men. From my bathroom window, as I wash my hands at the sink, I can see the parish priest's new house, suitably dimensioned and very nice indeed too, thank you very much. Adjacent to that is the church. Behind it is the primary school, named after an Irish Christian martyr who earned a particularly excrutiating beatification.

As I scan the headlines in my morning newspaper (less a rag, more a chamois), I meet, "Police criticised over UDR murder probe"; a sixteen year old bone of contention.
"Assembly poll 'in November'"; renewed speculation that the assembly elections could be called in November. Well, the SDLP and Sinn Fein are calling for it anyway.
"Loyalists warn children"; children as young as eight have been singled out by loyalist paramilitaries in South Belfast's Village area with leaflets warning of the consequences of "anti-social activities".
Inside the Holy Cross Primary School debacle rages anew and the rest of the paper is smattered with a new spate of death threats on varying levels of both institutions. All of this is so familiar as to be overlooked. I nestle myself in the sports pages.

As a prerequisite to fair employment in this city, you are asked to endorse your religious persuasion (just to ensure everyone is treated equally, you understand). To educate your children, you must either stuff them into archaic pigeon-holes or isolate them with gaelaige, hobby-horse romanticism. Integrated schools smack of tokenism and pedestal their charges while celebrating the gulf between them. To hold conversation is to modify the fervour of your convictions to accomodate the farrago of taboos which vary from mind to mind. Political correctness is a sublime, sacrosanct imperative. Don't tell me to take the moral high ground with my childrens' education. How lofty. I have no choice. I'm not going anywhere soon, not on my budget. My kids are neither brainwashed nor redeemed nor hardwired nor rootless. They are realistic and encouraged by my partner and myself to respect and explore all beliefs be they similar to or diverse from their own.

Politicians, here, are either verbose or demonstrative. They resort, having failed in penetrating their counterparts' sensibilities, to muck-slinging and personal jibes with their bully-boys standing arms-crossed in the recesses. Other ephemeral parties fizzle in to ignite fuses and whimper out again. How sad it is when noble discourse descends to school-yard ejaculation.

I forsee no future for Northern Ireland.
Paramilitarism, nicely funded now by contrabands, armed-robbery and protection rackets will proliferate and harden. The Nationalist people will never endorse the police force because their wounds are still fresh and are reopened with each new allegation of collusion. Children will never be taught independantly of politics or religion. Both communities will become further entrenched in petty squabbles and syntax. More innocents will die. Mistrust will be sprung like traps in the minds of each new generation and there is no going back. I'm sure Britannia is feeling the onus of this old ball and chain. Well, it's heavier than she thinks and grows with each frigid day.

I expect nothing from Ireland. I am grateful to have lived and learned.
I will instill the same gratitude in my children.

Romantic Ireland's dead and gone.
All's changed, changed utterly.

[Billy_Dean]

I'm really sorry for the way you feel Chalice, and I apologise if anything I've said has upset you, it wasn't my intention.

It's been a long time since I've been to Belfast, 1975 in fact, in those days there wasn't much to see except utter devastation. Driving out of the docks, brimming with army and police, with the gate shutting behind me, I felt a fear I had never experienced before. Left alone to drive through empty streets, with what appeared to be every single building destroyed or damaged. It beggars imagination to think what it must have been like to live through that.

My query is this, and again, I have no wish to offend, why do you still live there? The whole of Europe is your home now. Is it just money that keeps you there?

[J'Pol]

I like the North of Ireland, I think it is a lovely place, a lot of it is reminiscent of the west coast of Scotland. I really like the area around the Giants Causeway, Bushmills that sort of thing.

I have also spent a bit of time in and about Bangor, again I really like the area. I have stayed in Belfast a few times and never really felt any problem with it. However I have to say I have never been there during the "marching season", so I really don't know what it's like during the tense times. I have obviously been in Glasgow when the marches are going on and quite frankly that's bad enough.

[blackhatknight]

Originally posted by chalice@19 September 2003 - 13:29
I forsee no future for Northern Ireland.
Paramilitarism, nicely funded now by contrabands, armed-robbery and protection rackets will proliferate and harden. The Nationalist people will never endorse the police force because their wounds are still fresh and are reopened with each new allegation of collusion.  Children will never be taught independantly of politics or religion. Both communities will become further entrenched in petty squabbles and syntax. More innocents will die. Mistrust will be sprung like traps in the minds of each new generation and there is no going back. I'm sure Britannia is feeling the onus of this old ball and chain. Well, it's heavier than she thinks and grows with each frigid day.

I would reiterate your views and congratulate you in genuinely non sectarian thread on what is for many an emotive issue.

Poor us and poor them, man will always kill man, wars will come and go but the innately wicked nature of mankind has stood steadfast throughout history. Since the peace process crime has rose, and to me I feel this shows the true nature of the widely published minority that live here, thuggery masked in patriotism and moral high ground now once again becomes thuggery. I feel we, or any country (France, Columbia) will never rid itself of these type of people however that does not stop us the majority living in peace and I have been touched many times by the kindness from the “the other side the fence”.

I have no point to make nor any comfort to give on this matter, for a point can not be made from the pointless and the wrathful can not be comforted, but I am glad that the tribalism illustrated in Northern Ireland has not stopped us all from being individuals and as individuals, and only as this, can we leave this behind.

To seek a resolution awakens the problem to walk with your neighbour require no resolution

[billyfridge]

I know i'm repeating myself, but the only way the Irish problem will be resolved is when they kick religeon into touch and join the 21st century. when i was a teenager (1956ish) and got a girlfriend the first question my mother asked was '' Is she a mick'' (catholic). that attitude died with her. my 8 children wouldnt know a catholic from a protestant from a muslim, and thats how it should be.
I dont know about Gibraltar i think thats economy related. billyfridge Brit

[chalice]

From my living room window, as I write, I can see, slash-daubed in white on the gable wall of the opposite house, the acronym "FTPIRA". Fissured across that in red is an imposing "FTH HOODS WILL BE SHOT". The former describes copulation with a paramilitary organisation. The latter represents much the same thing, this time the recipients being adolescent car thieves. From my bedroom window, at night, I can hear, like some insane cockerel, the staccato screech of tyre on tarmacadam. I see, emerge from streetlight to streetlight, short, spiky hurling-bats crutching tall men. From my bathroom window, as I wash my hands at the sink, I can see the parish priest's new house, suitably dimensioned and very nice indeed too, thank you very much. Adjacent to that is the church. Behind it is the primary school, named after an Irish Christian martyr who earned a particularly excrutiating beatification.

As I scan the headlines in my morning newspaper (less a rag, more a chamois), I meet, "Police criticised over UDR murder probe"; a sixteen year old bone of contention.
"Assembly poll 'in November'"; renewed speculation that the assembly elections could be called in November. Well, the SDLP and Sinn Fein are calling for it anyway.
"Loyalists warn children"; children as young as eight have been singled out by loyalist paramilitaries in South Belfast's Village area with leaflets warning of the consequences of "anti-social activities".
Inside the Holy Cross Primary School debacle rages anew and the rest of the paper is smattered with a new spate of death threats on varying levels of both institutions. All of this is so familiar as to be overlooked. I nestle myself in the sports pages.

As a prerequisite to fair employment in this city, you are asked to endorse your religious persuasion (just to ensure everyone is treated equally, you understand). To educate your children, you must either stuff them into archaic pigeon-holes or isolate them with gaelaige, hobby-horse romanticism. Integrated schools smack of tokenism and pedestal their charges while celebrating the gulf between them. To hold conversation is to modify the fervour of your convictions to accomodate the farrago of taboos which vary from mind to mind. Political correctness is a sublime, sacrosanct imperative. Don't tell me to take the moral high ground with my childrens' education. How lofty. I have no choice. I'm not going anywhere soon, not on my budget. My kids are neither brainwashed nor redeemed nor hardwired nor rootless. They are realistic and encouraged by my partner and myself to respect and explore all beliefs be they similar to or diverse from their own.

Politicians, here, are either verbose or demonstrative. They resort, having failed in penetrating their counterparts' sensibilities, to muck-slinging and personal jibes with their bully-boys standing arms-crossed in the recesses. Other ephemeral parties fizzle in to ignite fuses and whimper out again. How sad it is when noble discourse descends to school-yard ejaculation.

I forsee no future for Northern Ireland.
Paramilitarism, nicely funded now by contrabands, armed-robbery and protection rackets will proliferate and harden. The Nationalist people will never endorse the police force because their wounds are still fresh and are reopened with each new allegation of collusion. Children will never be taught independently of politics or religion. Both communities will become further entrenched in petty squabbles and syntax. More innocents will die. Mistrust will be sprung like traps in the minds of each new generation and there is no going back. I'm sure Britannia is feeling the onus of this old ball and chain. Well, it's heavier than she thinks and grows with each frigid day.

I expect nothing from Ireland. I am grateful to have lived and learned.
I will instill the same gratitude in my children.

Romantic Ireland's dead and gone.
All's changed, changed utterly.

I did pretty fucking well there within the innocent realms of pre-spellcheck.

What's changed? Very little. True story.

My kids are older, as am I, as is my country.

Fewer murders, more crime, more teenage pregnancies, more disease, less sick jokes, more immigrants (which just goes to display how much worse the rest of the world must be).

We achieved a faux autonomy while not really achieving anything worth a fuck except not actively killing each other.

Recognised politicians have dithered outside constructive engagement 90% of the time, while being paid upwards of 70K per year- at your expense- British tax payers, btw.

Even Ian Paisley knew when to quit.

[chalice]

Bumped this thread and made that post last night out of little else than nostalgia.

Awoke this morning to hear that SAS troops have been re-deployed to N Ireland to assist the police force with the dissident Republican threat- perceived by some to be increasing.

How's about that, then?

So much for British withdrawal.

[Rat Faced]

Half a dozen, to work undercover, ain't it?

Why don't they just use some of the 1000 MI5 thats spying on the rest of us?