Americans Roll Over On Command

[nikita69]

Originally posted by JPaul@7 October 2003 - 04:28
I have nothing to hide and as such am happy to leave my details with the authorities. That is what my conclusion is based on. I have no problem identifying myself to the police if they wish me to. Indeed it saves a lot of bother and time.

I'm happy for u that u feel at comfort with this.

I genuinely think that it will decrease the crime levels and make it easier to identify people who do commit crime. As you have a law enforcement background you will realise that one of the big things is elimination.

I agree with U. Yet making it easy is not the issue here, how they use such power is what I object to. politicians and as much i dislike saying, yes some law enforcement personnel, were, do and will continue to abuse any current/future power of authority.

Fingerprints for example. The SOCO may find 20 prints, they have to eliminate those which should be there, employees, family whatever. If they can do this quickly from records it saves a lot of time.

no doubt it would help.

They are left with what should not be there. If there is also a record of everyone's print then it is easy to establish who the print which should not be there belongs to.

what guaranties can anyone give that innocent people won't be falsely charged, with the current system there are thousands of cases from around the globe. Not including the ones that have not been given the opportunity to prove their innocence.

DNA samples for rape cases - speaks for itself.

no doubt it would help.

What is your objection to this type of thing.

my life, my body and my mind. Want me to contribute to society? well I do. We all do, in our own way. We all have good & bad to us, no one is perfect.

On one hand its a balance of reducing crime and protect "national interest"
on the other hand its the survival of the basic rule of humanity, freedom

Believe it or not, there are several current laws that have so much loop holes that major criminals continue to live their life outside of prison and neither the national ID, nor DNA or even the fingerprint records would reduce crime drastically and/or in noticeable levels. What we need is the elimination of curroption within our current system.

btw, i do respect ur choice. also, u haven't answered my original question.

[Busyman]

National ID cards are a great idea and it's not so far fetched anyway. We already have state driver's licenses/ID cards. Wtf is the difference between that and a FEDERAL ID card.
Also the government is smart for putting religion on the census. If one were dumb enough to check it so be it.
I believe everyone should be fingerprinted but it has to be done in a certain way.
For instance, you must have a valid driver's licenses to receive the priviledge of driving or face consequences if caught driving without one.
The government should attach fingerprinting to a certain priviledge.
I just recalled that when I was a Boy Scout I was tricked. We had tour of a police station and at the end of tour THOSE BASTARDS FINGERPRINTED US. They probably were not being "educational". They probably did that shit on the dl because I lived in a crime ridden black neighborhood.

Anyway back on subject....

The government could attach fingerprinting with driving. I hope ALL immigrants are fingerprinted. That should be added to gain the priviledge of coming into the country. DNA is little more personal.

The unfortunate thing is that all of this will not necessarily reduce crime but help crimes to be solved easier. (It might make for a smarter criminal)

[LeGoMyFnLeg]

I agree with this plan. The local phone book is a good example of the need for something like this and no offense is intended to anyone but when I see 25 pages of listings for a "Singh Sidhu" all in the same small geographical area, I wonder how much worse it must be for officials to keep track of things. There is an absolute need for a comprehensive identification process. Not only to aid in tracking down criminals, but also to ensure that everyone has an equal chance at social programs and benefits which have been subject to abuse for some time.

[J'Pol]

Originally posted by nikita69@7 October 2003 - 00:13


btw, i do respect ur choice.  also, u haven't answered my original question.

What question have I failed to answer.

If it's

"How did u conclude to such judgment?"

I have answered it as I understand it. If my understanding was incorrect could you re-word it.

[clocker]

Re: fingerprinting.

I recently read an article about the wide disparity of opinion as to what constitutes a match when comparing prints. In some jurisdictions as few as 6 points of comparision is legally acceptable while in others the number raises to as high as 12 or 15.
There is also a haphazard array of standards governing the training of the "experts" qualified to present testimony.
If mandatory fingerprinting is going to occur then I think that these standards need to be more uniform and stringently enforced.
Given the high levels of credability that we have attributed to the "science" of fingerprint indentification, I would hope the standards would be raised quite a bit.

[J'Pol]

16 points is the minimum I am aware of in the UK

[clocker]

Originally posted by JPaul@6 October 2003 - 17:21
16 points is the minimum I am aware of in the UK

Is this a national standard?
In the US I think that every court determines the standards it wishes to impose.

[MagicNakor]

Originally posted by Biggles@7 October 2003 - 00:00
...Anybody know if they were successful? Or was it just another urban myth?

No, you can actually check off Jedi Knight, if you were so inclined.

[junkyardking]

Some people seem willing to sacrifice liberty for safety but who will provide safety from the state.
Politicians and the government are hardly worthy of your trust yet people are willing to provide
DNA and fingerprints to them under the impression this will bring them safety
but in reality will only bring them repression, absolute naivety and stupidity at it's finest. B)

[nikita69]

I just recalled that when I was a Boy Scout I was tricked. We had tour of a police station and at the end of tour THOSE BASTARDS FINGERPRINTED US. They probably were not being "educational". They probably did that shit on the dl because I lived in a crime ridden black neighborhood.

@Busyman - I didn't want to give my experience earlier about this issue, thinking no one would believe it. I was tricked to, so did hundreds of my school that I'm aware of and we lived in a mid-upper class area (besides, the race factor is not why). to my suprise later in life, is that we were few of hundreds of thousands (some agencies reported millions, and many countries did it). whether this is issue is still going or not, i haven't checked.

@JP - point and case about abuse of power and invading of privacy to children. Did we have anything to hide, besides the note we get from boys (girls in ur case)?

@junkyardking - I agree with u except the stupididty part.

Besides, the US is leading the social change by force not choice, to a certain extent. And the UK is right behind it.