Some Questions About Trackers

[Quarterquack]

ringhunter: tl;dr

i couldn't have said it better myself.

I see what you did there.

[Waddafocky]

You guys are awesome. Sorry I haven't been responding to this in a while, just mulling through it.

I found a site with better retention than IPT: Google.com. Using google, I can find torrents, DDL links, emule links (rarely) to shit I haven't even STARTED looking for yet!

Maybe the community draw is something that many private trackers have that most links google finds doesn't. But I find this is mostly true only for niche sites, like movies, or music, or gay porn, etc. I mean seriously, what can bring the members of a scene tracker together? Only two things, porn and computers, but you can find that anywhere (except at niche trackers).

So I'm still left as confused as before, but I know a few more things now.

Ringhunter, you brought up some valid points, let me go through them.

Pretimes = individuality? As much as I respect your opinions, I find it hard to click with that one. I can see the race, the competition as a need for pretimes, but then what makes the users boast over their site's pretimes? It's not like they released the stuff - it's just like a collective pride (in something I still don't think should be counted in milliseconds). But to give you a sense of my bias, I think the Olympics are foolish.

Your second paragraph I agree almost wholly with, and I'll ashamedly admit the elitism. How can I not? There's an implicit knowledge gap between those that know about the site and those that don't. I could go on and on about how P2P attacks consumerism, promotes free speech, but that's really BS. By agreeing to use the materials that P2P "cracks" for us, we engage entirely in the same consumerism that we blast.

IdolEyez- You've explained that pretty succinctly, and correctly, by my standards. chris went into more detail, so thanks for that too.

To continue the discussion, let me come with a few more questions, perhaps unanswerable:

It seems that scene-trackers cater to a specific segment of the BT community, mostly 14 year-olds with easy access to their mum's wallets. So what drives them? I refuse to believe that the content of any scene tracker is close to interesting - I'll have a much better time trolling the Top 100 list in TPB, or looking through all the weird shit that pops up on Demonoid. Is there an elitism that just comes with knowing that almighty word "scene"? This applies to much of the private BT world as well, but there's something about scene-trackers and their content-exclusivity that I can't grasp.

[Tokeman]

I use private trackers for two main reasons:
1. They are safer for me. All my friends who use public sites have received letters for their actions. I have received none and grab a hell of a lot more then they do.
2. They are free. This point is twords the newsgroup alternatives out there. If newsgroups were free (and just as fast as the paid ones) I'd just as easily use those instead.

It has nothing to do with elitism or community. Although its sometimes nice to have a forum to post to other then fst with a group of people who have some similar interests.

Edit: content plays a big role for Niche sites though. You can't match up google (or newsgroups) to What.cd or Bitmetv for example.

[Waddafocky]

1. I can't deny the "safe" aspect, but I also don't agree with it. More about this later.
2. I've never used used newsgroups, so it wouldn't be in my place to say anything about them.

Also, notice that my post is aimed more at "scene" trackers than anything else. I've found elitism to be a major facet of most of these trackers. And for the community aspect, I've explained why community is important in niche sites, rather, it's inherent. You're downloading/uploading to/from a group of people who apparently share your interests, and that's the beginnings of an online community. I was questioning the presence of a community in scene trackers, and how they manage to stay coherent.

[Quarterquack]

Pretimes = individuality? As much as I respect your opinions, I find it hard to click with that one. I can see the race, the competition as a need for pretimes, but then what makes the users boast over their site's pretimes? It's not like they released the stuff - it's just like a collective pride (in something I still don't think should be counted in milliseconds). But to give you a sense of my bias, I think the Olympics are foolish.

I'm willing to accept that people on the "outside" will never see this one through my eyes. I used to indulge in such inane behavior not too long ago (scene releasing), so for me, the thrill of it all still overpowers my opinions about it. If you're biased, then I'm ten times moreso. However, as I grew older and (hopefully) saner, I started seeing things through a different light and while I haven't completely disposed of that part of me that still finds interest in the balance between the quality and quantity of releases, I readily understand why people see no more to it than a meaningless gimmick.

I found a site with better retention than IPT: Google.com. Using google, I can find torrents, DDL links, emule links (rarely) to shit I haven't even STARTED looking for yet!

Maybe the community draw is something that many private trackers have that most links google finds doesn't. But I find this is mostly true only for niche sites, like movies, or music, or gay porn, etc. I mean seriously, what can bring the members of a scene tracker together? Only two things, porn and computers, but you can find that anywhere (except at niche trackers).

To continue the discussion, let me come with a few more questions, perhaps unanswerable:

It seems that scene-trackers cater to a specific segment of the BT community, mostly 14 year-olds with easy access to their mum's wallets. So what drives them? I refuse to believe that the content of any scene tracker is close to interesting - I'll have a much better time trolling the Top 100 list in TPB, or looking through all the weird shit that pops up on Demonoid. Is there an elitism that just comes with knowing that almighty word "scene"? This applies to much of the private BT world as well, but there's something about scene-trackers and their content-exclusivity that I can't grasp.

Be careful with the security issues. More often than not, public trackers will get you in trouble eventually (I've been using kickasstorrents a lot recently, since I have no adequate movie piracy outlet). As for the community: To each his own, to be honest. I enjoy knowledgeable communities moreso than anything else. A community where intelligent discussion isn't limited to people's idiotic opinions, but rather a collective of those idiotic opinions and a thought provoking reference to a book or thinker is usually a big draw for me. A couple of trackers do that for me, but more than that, other communities that are more topic centric fulfill that rather well. I've taken a particular liking to a specific blog and its discussions.

As for your last question: I'd assume so, although, I only really ever grab what I want/need (and before someone mentions how I don't need anything, yes, I do, and I'll gladly prove that so). So, in light of the options one has when looking up content, be it TV shows, movies or games (regardless of the platform) scene releases have the upper hand. Which is why there's a draw to them. It'd be naive to assume that everyone sees this the same way I do, otherwise everyone would be content with just one scene tracker, and everyone would be content with having a similar downloaded amount as to myself (I'm at around the 2TB mark total across all my trackers), which people obviously don't. That, and other factors filter into the equation. I know people absolutely obsessed with collecting, be it trackers, or the content hosted on them. Just look at the thread on SCC where people name drop the exact kind of material they collect (I remember a member at ScT who had over 30-40+ TB's collected of every possible television series, which would have been impossible for him to collect had he not had access to scene trackers). And, yet again, it goes without saying, that some people are tools that think the more options they are privy to, the more it makes them 1337 or capable of getting a "rare" file.

Not an empirical answer, to be honest, more again the sort that points to "Oh well, this is my answer, I'm sure you'll find a more suitable/appropriate one for yourself."

[Waddafocky]

Ok, I see where you're coming from now. I used to be a part of a cracking group that had a fling with the scene, but found the competition counterproductive.

As for security - although I'm becoming dumber about it now, I still have a lot more know-how than the average user. I keep away from fake torrents, look for specific torrents, and generally avoid new movies/music. I have PTP and PTN (thanks to Darth Vader), but they usually don't carry the specific types of encodes that I look for (~2 GB 720p).

I also like your stance regarding community. I find the stupidity of democracy much more comfortable and enlightening than the murmurings of elite cabals. No sarcasm.

I'll take the plunge - why do you need it, rather than want it? And same here, I never get shit for the sake of a buffer/for the sake of getting it. And I guess I underestimated the draw of collectionism, something that I can completely sympathize with. I download albums, never singles. If there's a box set, I'll jump on that rather than the individual movies. Seasons > episodes. But still I find this stupid. I realize myself that I really couldn't care for all the other songs on Mack Daddy besides Baby Got Back. I hate the last two Matrixes. So maybe I'm asking this to find opinions that will provoke me enough to stop myself from indulging in this careless behavior. Therefore I can't blast guys who use scene trackers to get everything under the sun and moon, without being hypocritical.

I don't give two shits about empiricism. Empiricism was invented by old rich white men dressed in silly clothes to "prove" things to those without the resources to do the same (sorry if you're old rich or white, but you don't have an excuse if you dress in silly clothes). But I really do appreciate honest, thoughtful answers to such convoluted posts such as mine. And don't worry - I don't take anything you say for granted. I'm still in a discovery stage myself, and I'm still a skeptic of everything. But I appreciate it all the same.