Fags

[azntg]

I don't smoke and I am against smoking, but I do think they are taking cigarette costs to the extreme (along with software, transit costs, etc., but that's another matter). So I do agree with the people who say lower the prices and the bootleg operations will cease for the most part or make some kind of incentives to current long-time smokers since they've been smoking for a long time and probably won't stop and keep the high prices for casual smokers, that could work.

[namzuf9]

Originally posted by Mr JP Fugley+11 December 2003 - 01:41--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Mr JP Fugley @ 11 December 2003 - 01:41)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Withcheese@11 December 2003 - 00:36

It would be interesting to know how much traffic in illegal cigarettes is REALLY controlled by "organised crime," my own experience in getting cheap fags/booze has been pubs and local shops making a bit extra on the side do their own runs abroad...

The vast bulk is from organised crime.

The profits are enormous. [/b][/quote]
Come off it, theres more money in "people smuggling". Trust me I can hook you up if you&#39;d like B)

[k-liteuserintheworld]

Originally posted by Mr JP Fugley+11 December 2003 - 00:30--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Mr JP Fugley @ 11 December 2003 - 00:30)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Withcheese@11 December 2003 - 00:26

This money should be used for services including the National Health Service, Education, Roads etc. Do people think that it is morally acceptable to buy "cheap" cigarettes and tobacco at markets and car boot sales.

I have no morals when it comes to getting things cheap (like cigarettes) or for free (like the music I download). Sorry.

Don&#39;t apologise, the Chancellor will just take the money from elsewhere.

If people want to line the pockets of criminals involved in serious and organised crime, then it is a free country.

As long as they are getting their cigarettes cheaper, that&#39;s the important thing. [/b][/quote]
what proof is there that the money is lining the pockets of organised criminals, if that statement were true then you would have to accept the other statement that we the people who share music are organised criminals selling copyed music to fund our illegal activity, because thats what they say its for, think next time virtually all cheep tobacco and cigs that come here to the uk are usually brought here by lorry drivers from duty frees, to make some extra money.

[chalice]

I understand it is a privelidge to smoke, JP but isn&#39;t it hard to avoid the fact the government could bypass this problem altogether by counter-acting the black market?

Every budget spawns a new clutch of spivs.

[Cheese]

Originally posted by Mr JP Fugley+10 December 2003 - 23:41--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Mr JP Fugley @ 10 December 2003 - 23:41)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Withcheese@11 December 2003 - 00:36

It would be interesting to know how much traffic in illegal cigarettes is REALLY controlled by "organised crime," my own experience in getting cheap fags/booze has been pubs and local shops making a bit extra on the side do their own runs abroad...

The vast bulk is from organised crime.

The profits are enormous. [/b][/quote]
Well okay but I don&#39;t really think a lot of people are going to stop get cheaper fags because of this fact, most people don&#39;t really care where they get things from as long as they are cheap.

This goes for a lot of things like drugs (again organised crime I&#39;d assume) and trainers and clothes (from sweatshops in third world countries).

Morality doen&#39;t even come into most of the time, usually you just think to yourself, "Great, I&#39;ve saving a shedload here..."

[namzuf9]

Originally posted by Mr JP Fugley+11 December 2003 - 01:50--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Mr JP Fugley &#064; 11 December 2003 - 01:50)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by namzuf9@11 December 2003 - 00:44

Originally posted by Mr JP Fugley@11 December 2003 - 01:41
<!--QuoteBegin-Withcheese

@11 December 2003 - 00:36

It would be interesting to know how much traffic in illegal cigarettes is REALLY controlled by "organised crime," my own experience in getting cheap fags/booze has been pubs and local shops making a bit extra on the side do their own runs abroad...

The vast bulk is from organised crime.

The profits are enormous.

Come off it, theres more money in "people smuggling". Trust me I can hook you up if you&#39;d like B)

Snakeheading is entirely different, as there would be no loss to the exchequer anyway. People smuggling and / or human trafficking is not taxed.

What do you base your judgement on the relative profits from these activities on, other than your "common sense".[/b][/quote]
It was a light hearted approach to a serious subject.

I&#39;d like to hear your definition of "organised crime" are we talking about serious criminal activity such as the mafia, triads etc? Or one bloke who makes regular trips to france for a van load of baccy?

[chalice]

It just seems to me that the deficit you mentioned is snowballing beyond taxation and punishment. I&#39;m sure you&#39;s agree this is only the beginning and enterprise exceeds legislation always.

Obviously, shifting the weight to other (already crippled) areas isn&#39;t the answer.

Neither, I believe, is all the police hours dedicated to eradicating it.

[namzuf9]

What makes me laugh is the way that smokers have been slammed by the anti-smoker&#39;s organisations in the UK but apparently we&#39;re saving a lot of people in this country a shitload of cash.
I would like all the non-smokers in the Uk to remember that next time I light up in a public place.

Edit: Of course this only applys to the smokers that buy tobacco through legal means so its kind of a half arsed point in this conversation.

[Alex H]

We have the same thing in Australia. A lot of tobacco seems to fall off the back of the truck somewhere between the farms in Queensland and the packaging factories in Victoria. And guess who does it? The farmers&#33; They get paid &#036;X/kg by the tobacco companies, but they can make 3 times that by "loosing" it in transit and selling it themselves. But hey, supply and demand right?

This episode of Yes Prime Minister has some very funny takes on the situation:

File:Yes Prime Minister - s4-e3 - The Smoke Screen.mp3
Length:7046008 Bytes, 6880KB
UUHash:=RhatOmuWmyfXsOtnY9D6D0SRnn8=

[clocker]

Things may be different here in the US, JP.
But I doubt it.

Our new budget include billions (&#33;&#33;&#33 of dollars of what is affectionately known a "pork"- pet projects of powerful legislators.

For instance, we will soon be funding ( to the tune of 51 million bucks), a "Rain Forest" project in Iowa ( I think) so Midwestern children can see the glories of a habitat they couldn&#39;t care less about.

Recently in Denver, a privately funded aquarium was about to go bankrupt and they appealed for state funding. The source for the extra money?
Yup.
Raise the "sin taxes", alcohol and cigarettes.
Every time I bought a pack of smokes I could feel all warm and fuzzy cause it would help keep the most pathetic aquarium I have ever seen ( I highly recommend the one in Baltimore, BTW) afloat.
Fortunately, this did not happen.
It is a trend however, for states and the Federal government to try and patch up their absurd fiscal irresponsibility by demonizing fringe groups ( read: smokers) and then taxing them to death.
AFAIK, NONE of the settlement money that was gouged from Big Tobacco has gone anywhere near the group of folks it was supposed to benefit.
Here in Colorado our portion of that money went to stem the hemorraging of money to public schools.

Screw that shit.
I arrange to buy my cigs from Indian reservations whenever possible...no tax.