Atheist Pleads With Justices

[ilw]

Originally posted by Busyman@25 March 2004 - 18:07
You are saying that there should be this feeling of "Do it because it is right". Well.....what's right? Where do you get right from?

Just because it is not harming someone else (that's the most popular among atheists and non-religious types).

Well....why not harm someone else (to play devil's advocate)?

without god there is nothing intrinsically right or wrong and there is no good/evil. But you can create your morals and base your laws on reasoning instead of saying they were handed down from on high, and imo that seems like a good idea. You don't really have to decide whats right just what works best...

As to why not hurt someone, well theres :
quid pro quo
the police
the fact that you hopefully wouldnt like actually doing it or/and would feel bad about doing it later
fear that someone would do it to you
and then why harm someone?

[leftism]

Morality is founded on evolution.

Animals of the same species rarely kill each other. e.g. When two dogs are fighting one will roll over on its back when it gives up and the other dog will not rip its throat out but it'll walk away.

Does that dog follow a religion? Does it have any sense of morality?

Mammals that live in social groups do not kill each other if they can avoid it. This is because their survival is based on co-operation.

The only animals that do kill each other with unnerving frequency are humans. We often do it in the name of religion as well don't we?

Witchhunts, the Inquisition, the Crusades, Islamic extremism.. need I go on?

I don't need a book or a myth to know right from wrong. It's something that all mammals are born with. Its the socialisation process that twists that inbuilt morality, and that process ironically enough often involves religion.

[Biggles]

This does rather seem to be cutting one's nose to spite the face.

It may have more to do with feelings of alienation from input to his daughter's upbringing; especially if he is an atheist and his ex is a Christian. I don't want to get too pink and fluffy, but he may simply, perhaps sub-consciously, be shouting "I care too".

As I have indicated before, my opinions on religion are perhaps not mainstream. I find a degree of satisfaction in marking the seasons as they pass in time with the old Celtic calendar. The understatedness I find comforting -

My daughter takes it more seriously than I and in the enthusiasm of youth tends to be very "out there". In fairness to her though she has talked her religious education teacher into allowing her to use her own beliefs in class work and projects. This would suggest to me that, in our state schools at least, religion is not much of an issue. This is, from my perspective, good. Then again, not being burned at the stake as an heretic is even better.

[J'Pol]

"This is, from my perspective, good. Then again, not being burned at the stake as an heretic is even better. "


You consider the "h" in heretic a silent one old bean ? Or have you been at the happle already ?

[Biggles]

Originally posted by J'Pol@25 March 2004 - 23:22
"This is, from my perspective, good. Then again, not being burned at the stake as an heretic is even better. "


You consider the "h" in heretic a silent one old bean ? Or have you been at the happle already ?

I fear this is not the first time I have lapsed into a somewhat archaic use of English. Too many years cooped up reading old texts (with happle in hand) to blame (oh, and society of course)


At least I rarely stick the letter e on the ende of words though


Damn

[Busyman]

Originally posted by ilw+25 March 2004 - 16:53--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (ilw @ 25 March 2004 - 16:53)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Busyman@25 March 2004 - 18:07
You are saying that there should be this feeling of "Do it because it is right". Well.....what&#39;s right? Where do you get right from?

Just because it is not harming someone else (that&#39;s the most popular among atheists and non-religious types).

Well....why not harm someone else (to play devil&#39;s advocate)?

without god there is nothing intrinsically right or wrong and there is no good/evil. But you can create your morals and base your laws on reasoning instead of saying they were handed down from on high, and imo that seems like a good idea. You don&#39;t really have to decide whats right just what works best...

As to why not hurt someone, well theres :
quid pro quo
the police
the fact that you hopefully wouldnt like actually doing it or/and would feel bad about doing it later
fear that someone would do it to you
and then why harm someone? [/b][/quote]
There fairly obvious reasons to harm someone.

Why do you need them stated?

[Arm]

If the Pledge of Allegiance was ever put up for banning, ide support it. Though I am an atheist, I hate the pledge for other reasons. Mostly being so because I see the pledge as some bullshit propagonda to brainwash the kids into blindly supporting America. Though it&#39;s not the kids can understand the big words they are saying. I know when I was in kindergarden and recited the pledge I didn&#39;t know what the hell I was saying. I just blindly followed like a dog. If I could go back ide stop myself from saying the pledge. Though saying the pledge is mandatory. You&#39;ll get your name written on the board if you don&#39;t&#33;

Now that I know what the hell I am saying it is safe to say that I don&#39;t pledge allegiance to the flag or the United States of America. Arm no like America.

Remember kiddies, it&#39;s not the "Under God" part that gets people, it&#39;s the whole damn pledge.

[Alex H]

Originally posted by Busyman@25 March 2004 - 19:59
I&#39;m not saying there is this fine line for me, between sanity and insanity.
I&#39;m saying when your emotions get the best of you, you have your faith in God, or your religion.

You make it like you have never had an "evil" thought. The difference is whether you act on it.

Interesting question that. There was an episode of Law & Order SVU I watched last night where a cop was in trouble for telling a police psycologist that he fantasised about killing rapists and murderers. He had never actually done it, but the fact that he thought about it put him at risk of loosing his job.

Eventually the review panel decided that he was ok to keep working because he had never hurt a perpetrator, and that thoughts of violence against the criminals he arrested were normal.

Whether he was religious or not wasn&#39;t discussed. He managed to get a set of moral values from somewhere though.

[hobbes]

"Morals", as I have said before, come from a uniquely human ability to appreciate "selfish" behavior.

It is that simple, you don&#39;t need a God to tell you this.

[3RA1N1AC]

the pledge is no more sacred today than it was in the 1950s when congress decided to amend it. we oughta be able to put it up for a vote and see if people want to change it again. if people want to make an expression of patriotism without having to draw attention to their religious differences, they shouldn&#39;t be forced to live with a decision made by congress 50 years ago when non-christian religions and atheism were, shall we say, relatively inaudible compared to christian lobbies.

in a classroom full of atheist children, should the pledge go "one nation... (awkward silence)... indivisible, with liberty and justice for all"? if children are allowed to insert the deity of their choice, instead of "god," should the rest of the class have to pause and wait for one student to finish pronouncing the name of a deity that&#39;s several syllables longer than "god"?