Gay Marriage

[vidcc]

Regarding what makes a person gay, all of your logic is pretty out the window.
I have given real life situations for my logic. All I get is, "They are born with it."

we have given reason after reason why we base our opinion on it..using "life logic" ...not just "they are born with it"... Just because we find it futile to repeat the same things over and over which you disagree with doesn't mean we have no basis for why we hold to this theory.

it's all just opinion on both sides...no proof. So why not just accept that people are different and work to stop discrimination based on that difference. how they became different in irrelevent.

[Busyman]

Why don't you just admit you're homophobic?

Nice total avoidance of everything I've said btw

Jonno

Why cause I don't agree with you?

I wear a mink coat?

I cut down trees and never replant?

Who avoided anything you said?

Did read the ..............uh no?

[Busyman]

That's a long winded way of saying 'I've no idea what makes a person gay'

Yet my logic is 'out of the window' and your 'I've no idea, mank' statement is based on real life situation logic. Quality.

I know this is a rehash of an old argument, I've no real desire to go back down that road but I did wonder if your logic had improved since the last time.

Nope

Let me clarify then.

I believe how one feels about the same sex or the opposite sex is matter of preference just like your preference of color. The commision of the sexual act is choice.

I do not believe there is a chemical or corpus colossumwhateverthefuck that regulates your preference.

I don't believe every decision is uh....scientificalized.

You like who you like.

[Busyman]

we have given reason after reason why we base our opinion on it..using "life logic" ...not just "they are born with it"... Just because we find it futile to repeat the same things over and over which you disagree with doesn't mean we have no basis for why we hold to this theory.

it's all just opinion on both sides...no proof. So why not just accept that people are different and work to stop discrimination based on that difference. how they became different in irrelevent.

Agreed, I can't prove why someone likes blue either or why I like phat ass and tits. I just do.

No one has "given reason after reason" ever that hasn't easily been refuted.

I've heard the:

-he grew up in heterosexual household
-why would they do it knowing they would go through this shit
-he tried to go straight because of his religion but just couldn't (in instances committed suicide)
-2 dads raised a child and they didn't grow up gay

I got it, I got it.

All of it easily refuted.

[manker]

Let me clarify then.

I believe how one feels about the same sex or the opposite sex is matter of preference just like your preference of color. The commision of the sexual act is choice.

I do not believe there is a chemical or corpus colossumwhateverthefuck that regulates your preference.

I don't believe every decision is uh....scientificalized.

You like who you like.

Well, I agree. We like who we like.

A person looks at another and instantly thinks 'that is aesthetically pleasing.'
A person looks at a colour and instantly thinks 'that is aesthetically pleasing.'

Same kinda thing.

I don't know where the choice comes into it tho' - My g/f has a lemon coloured car, I really do not like it. Nothing will make me like it. She also has a bit of a thing for this bloke in Eastenders. Nothing will make me like him, either.

They are different in that the sexual response is a lot more complex but for me having a choice about how I feel has never happened, I either feel something - or I don't. I can't prefer to feel a particular emotion, I just feel it.

It's all down to chemicals.

I expect the next round will come down to real life examples, since I'm here I'll get it out of the way

Homosexuality used to be punishable by death or imprisonment up until fairly recently. With this being the case why did those folk who lived in yesteryear decide to become gay and risk death by poker impaling.

Answer: They couldn't help it, they were just born that way. They did not choose to become gay.

Case closed.

[Busyman]

Well, I agree. We like who we like.

A person looks at another and instantly thinks 'that it is aesthetically pleasing.'
A person looks at a colour and instantly thinks 'that it is aesthetically pleasing.'

Same kinda thing.

I don't know where the choice comes into it tho' - My g/f has a lemon coloured car, I really do not like it. Nothing will make me like it. She also has a bit of a thing for this bloke in Eastenders. Nothing will make me like him, either.

They are different in that the sexual response is a lot more complex but for me having a choice about how I feel has never happened, I either feel something - or I don't. I can't prefer to feel a particular emotion, I just feel it.

It's all down to chemicals.

I expect the next round will come down to real life examples, since I'm here I'll get it out of the way

Homosexuality used to be punishable by death or inprisonment up until fairly recently. With this being the case why did those folk who lived in yesteryear decide to become gay and risk death by poker impaling.

Answer: They couldn't help it, they were just born that way. They did not choose to become gay.

Case closed.

Already explained the "choice" part. Maybe you read it, maybe you didn't.
The sexual act itself is a choice the way one feels is not.
Glad we agree.

I guess because men wanted to slam other men even with a death penalty they then were born gay? Hey great explanation thanks for sharing.

[manker]

Great post, JP.

I think along similar lines, I guess, but while rebuking BM's concious choice theory I did push the genetic slant, a lot. It is a predisposition to be attracted to one or both sexes that we're born with, I think.

That can either be encouraged or muted but it is there and it is innate. The person cannot change his or her sexuality on a whim.

[manker]

Already explained the "choice" part. Maybe you read it, maybe you didn't.
The sexual act itself is a choice the way one feels is not.
Glad we agree.

I guess because men wanted to slam other men even with a death penalty they then were born gay? Hey great explanation thanks for sharing.

Jusrt because you explained it, doesn't make it so.

The fact that the men knew the death penalty was hanging over them if they commited acts of homosexuality, yet they still did it proves there isn't any kind of concious choice involved in being attracted to someone.

Ye Olde guy: 'Hmm what a choice I have before me, a man and a poker up my arse til I die, or a woman and social acceptance'

If one could choose one's sexual preference then no-one would have got executed for homosexuality.

Do you understand now?

[Busyman]

I genuinely don't think it's a yes / no thing. I think we are all born somewhere on a sliding scale. Environmental factors will then have an influence on how we end up.

In short, I believe it is a mixture of both. We are a product of both our genes and our environment.

The same goes for things like apparent intelligence. Someone may be born with a great potential for learning. However if it is not nurtured and encouraged then it will come to naught. Someone else may have less in the way of raw ability, however it may be developed to it's fullest. Which will be perceived as being the cleverer. I would venture the one who demonstrates it, even if that is not the case.

The same is true for physical strength. Someone may be genetically predisposed to being physically strong. However if they are not fed properly, or do not train then they will not reach that potential.

I believe that much of the human condition can be viewed in this way. Our potential allied to our environment. In my view sexuality falls within that category.

I agree with you as well except that with sexuality it involves sentient emotive responses. Likes and dislikes

Physical strength does not involve this.

Learning disability can be directly attributed to brain dysfunction. However, the way one learns is forever changing. There are those that are considered disabled yet they just learn differently.

There too many instances of the sexuality scale to lump it into two categories. Or should I say 3.

Gay, Bisexual, Straight. That's it case closed................bullshit.

The reason real life examples are cited is because they all don't fit in just the 3 categories.

To attribute "I like females", there's this a preponderance of this chemical, but when switching over to "I like males", there's a preponderance of this different chemical, is utterly unproven and untrue.

There's a rise of the same chemical when pussy gets wet for woman or a man.

[Busyman]

Jusrt because you explained it, doesn't make it so.

The fact that the men knew the death penalty was hanging over them if they commited acts of homosexuality, yet they still did it proves there isn't any kind of concious choice involved in being attracted to someone.

Ye Olde guy: 'Hmm what a choice I have before me, a man and a poker up my arse til I die, or a woman and social acceptance'

If one could choose one's sexual preference then no-one would have got executed for homosexuality.

Do you understand now?

No it's you who doesn't understand.

Me explaining it has nothing to do with "making it so".

Again you have not read squat.
I never said one could choose there sexuality on a whim so there goes your argument.

I really don't know why you keep pushing this.

That's like saying I can stop loving one woman and love another "on a whim".
I don't want to.

To be clear on something......

Why couldn't those who risked homosexual acts with a death consequence could have been also been horny as well as gay. The act is a choice. The feeling is not.

What about those heteros who risked death to be with a certain woman that was forbidden.

What about the white woman who was so in love with this black man and risked family relationships to be with him.

I guess it was black man chemical.