Oh, those naughty French soldiers...

[DanB]

Of course I do, Dave.

The only intervening action would be determined by a chance appearance on the radar-screen of an entity with a "rooting interest" in subsequent events.

As an exemplar, you might re-visit the USSR's excursion into Afghanistan a while back.

We fecklessly tried to intervene (Bin Laden's genesis) but the Russians weren't deterred to any great extent by exterior forces.

Why not?

It was Afghanistan, that's why not.

My, how things have changed, huh?

Would that be when OBL was the US' friend and they supplied him with money and weapons?

[Biggles]

J2

I would disagree that Bin Laden's efforts against the Russians were ineffective. The use of Bin Laden might have been feckless but he did the job. The Russians were heavily divided about going in, in the first place and were heartily sick of the place by the time they left.

Interestingly, Afghanistan gets little play on TV even today. I believe little headway has been made in terms of rebuilding and the Afghans, as ever, have returned to tending poppies.

[Rat Faced]

A great deal more poppies than they managed to under the Taliban...

[j2k4]

In order, then:

Biggles-

I was referring to the alleged body-count, and also to the fact it was the French who over-stepped.

Both counts it seemed to me merited mention.

I should have been clearer on this, I think.

Rat-

I am sorry to have overlooked your mention.

Mea maxima culpa.

DanB-

Yes, exactly.

BTW-you have been a party to enough of these discussions to have tired of reminding us that we (the U.S.) are responsible for OBL's current status, haven't you?

Surely you would grant that I am aware?

This particular tuppence has become a bit tarnished from over-use.

Biggles (again!)-

I agree; but didn't wish to paint Bin Laden as a "puppet" or "tool" of the U.S., as he most certainly was not.

I don't believe we were too concerned about the specific methodology of his harassment of the Soviets.

[DanB]

Sorry, I just couldn't resist

The world is going to hell in a handcart though, I don't think it really matters who does what anymore, the fact is it needs to stop happening before any of the problems can be sorted out

[j2k4]

Sorry, I just couldn't resist

The world is going to hell in a handcart though, I don't think it really matters who does what anymore, the fact is it needs to stop happening before any of the problems can be sorted out

Large parts are going to Hell, 'tis true...

I am well aware you don't see the routing on many of our actions, but I can state that, though many have been consequentially somewhat less-than-ideal (to say the least) they are undertaken with a steadily improving eye toward making the blue marble a better place.

I believe this, and not blindly, either.

I've said it before, but if you could see it from here...

[DanB]

Can i just throw something unrelated in here - I have been thinking the last few days about what would happen if we did as the insurgents wanted in Iraq and we all just packed our shit up and left them to it?

I know its something that won't happen but if we called their bluff and did it, do you reckon they would be satisified?

[Biggles]

Dan

Those that have their own agenda would be delighted. Iraq is a rich country, the pickings for those in charge are enormous.

Those who are politically motivated may also be pleased although some seem to like the fact that they have the Coalition to attack.

The poor Iraqi on the street may possibly(probabaly) wish that they all went away.

[DanB]

Would they sort their country out themselves and get on or would they just fight amongst themselves though?

I know there is a lot more at stake than meets the eye, arab countries don't want Iraq turning into a democracy as it goes against their beliefs etc so they are sending their own fighters, so if we left and it was down to them to sort out Iraq would it become a better place? Or would they use it to bite our bum at a later date?

[j2k4]

...you reckon they would be satisified?

Not a chance.

No one knows how many disparate interests are currently united against us, but each would be at cross-purposes with the rest if we absented ourselves.

The result would not be civil war; indeed, something far above and beyond that.

Hostilities would spill in every direction...