A sad commentary on the current state of affairs

[j2k4]

Bush was the ultimate ENABLER- he is the man who should suffer the blame.

I really hate to put you and Sid in the same bag, Hobbes, but, there you are.

Odd that everyone here (especially yourself) but me is free to step away from ideology in order to discuss a common vexation.

Fuck it.

Whichever mod sees this first, please close this thread?

[hobbes]

I really hate to put you and Sid in the same bag, Hobbes, but, there you are.

Odd that everyone here (especially yourself) but me is free to step away from ideology in order to discuss a common vexation.

Fuck it.

Whichever mod sees this first, please close this thread?

I have critcized Bush, I have defended Bush. I call each situation as I see it. To suddenly label me as one who is unable to step away from my idealogy to discuss this concept of a loss of honor is unfair.

I think the two situations are parallel.

but....

[hobbes]

My point is that I think neither Bush nor Rather should step down.

If both Rather and Bush acted or reported in a way that was truly what they believed, although erroneous in reality, both are obligated to apologise or recognize publically that they made a mistake, but "honor" does not require that should step down.

Had the US Government gone on to construct phony "WMD" findings to cover their asses, that would have been dishonorable. In fact, I was a bit proud that when the media proclaimed that all these illegal chemicals had been found and the government consistently came back a said, "No, it was just pesticide". That was some serious crow eating.

Similarly, had Rather not fessed up to his error that would have been dishonorable.

So I think the authors attack at CBS and it's honor was a poor example of what honor is.

Had they known they were broadcasting lies, or if Bush knew there were no weapons of mass distruction, these acts would be equally dishonorable.

So, you may still have a valid point that a persons' sense of honor has taken a turn for the worse. That a handshake, which was to be as binding as a legal document, is now just a physical motion.

I just didn't think the author made an apt choice of example. I used the Bush scenario to show where his logic went awry.

I was not jumping on the kill Bush bandwagon, that is already full. I was disagreeing with the example put forth by the author.

[TheDave]

all politicians are greedy liars. nuff said

[j2k4]

So I think the authors attack at CBS and it's honor was a poor example of what honor is.
I just didn't think the author made an apt choice of example. I used the Bush scenario to show where his logic went awry.

The author's point was to illustrate that honor-in the media, in politics, in business, in society, in the main-is not prevalent; indeed, does not exist any longer.

The CBS fiasco is a perfect example of this, never mind the Bush aspect.

As a lead-in to the larger issue, should he reject a perfect specimen (one which possesses the qualification and reader recognition) in order to avoid stepping on anti-Bush toes?

Reese's aim is to point up that the historical regard for honor no longer exists; what better example than the most recent and contemporary?

Honestly, I am baffled-most of my threads go more than two posts before veering so far afield.

[j2k4]

all politicians are greedy liars. nuff said

Just so, but to phrase it thus doesn't make for much of a thread, Dave.

[j2k4]

[QUOTE=Mr JP As an aside, I do not believe that all politicians can be tarred with the same brush. I believe that there are degrees of tarrage.[/QUOTE]

An appropriate adjunct, to be sure.

This is when the discomfitment of assigning a moral shading occurs; people have been known to flee in terror at the prospect of it.

[Biggles]

Gavyn Davies, Chairman of the BBC

Mr Davies resigned as a result of the findings of the Hutton Report. His organisation had made errors (I believe they were genuine errors). It was roundly criticized for them and the top man resigned.

Culture Secretary Tessa Jowell said Mr Davies had "done the honourable thing" and she would now advertise for his replacement.

As an aside, I do not believe that all politicians can be tarred with the same brush. I believe that there are degrees of tarrage.

Likewise Greg Dyke also resigned from the BBC following the Hutton report. It has to be said that he took considerable sympathy with him and a fair degree of the moral high ground. Thus showing that the honourable path is not without its benefits.

[j2k4]

Likewise Greg Dyke also resigned from the BBC following the Hutton report. It has to be said that he took considerable sympathy with him and a fair degree of the moral high ground. Thus showing that the honourable path is not without its benefits.

Hear, Hear!!

Chief amongst these benefits is a large measure of dignity, which is also in short supply these days.

Forgive me please for noting that an image of Paris Hilton just popped into my head.

Sorry...

[Biggles]

Hear, Hear!!

Chief amongst these benefits is a large measure of dignity, which is also in short supply these days.

Forgive me please for noting that an image of Paris Hilton just popped into my head.

Sorry...

Now her I have seen on TV. The aim being, as far as I can see, to prove that despite upbringing and opportunity it is possible to bring out the inner trailer trash in oneself. (Note: I am not entirely sure what trailer trash are but I have seen the expression used and it seemed apposite)

I fear your for your head J2