I would like to argue something pretty important to me.

[NikkiD]

The police here carry guns. And it is legal for citizens to have guns. However, to buy a gun, you must first be trained, and then licensed. The types of guns available to the public is much more limited than it is in the US. Only certain individuals may carry concealed weapons, and it is very, very difficult to obtain a license for that - Private investigators, personal bodyguards, highly trained persons. Storage of weapons here is very specific. All weapons must have trigger locks as well as safety mechanisms. They may not be stored loaded. They must be stored in a locked compartment - and ammunition must be stored separately and also locked away. So they are available, but not freely.

That said, the number of gun related deaths in Canada is relatively low in comparison with the US. I'm not sure of exact statistics in this area, so I won't give exact quotes.

I personally don't own a gun. Don't want one, don't feel a need for one. I know very few people who do, most of those are used for deer/goose hunting. I rarely lock my door, though I have had the occasional drunk wander in. I still feel safe.

I don't feel that being passive with no protection is stupid. I don't feel the need for protection, that's the whole point. There IS a police force, yet crime still happens. There IS security in the subways, yet people still get pushed onto the tracks. There IS an intelligence agency in the states, and yet 9/11 happened. You can't prevent everything. Deal with what happens as it happens. Punish the offenders accordingly. Move on. You can't live your life worrying about what might happen - that's no way to live.

[Jon L. Obscene]

There IS a police force, yet crime still happens. There IS security in the subways, yet people still get pushed onto the tracks. There IS an intelligence agency in the states, and yet 9/11 happened. You can't prevent everything. Deal with what happens as it happens. Punish the offenders accordingly. Move on. You can't live your life worrying about what might happen - that's no way to live.

That's!! what I was trying to say

I can add nothing more to that, perfectly said

Jonno

[Busyman]

Ah, you're arguing my point that heavy security makes you look week.

Well I'm sorry but to me a person or place that needs heavy security at their own home is showing fear, if you don't live in fear, why do you need the security like that?

Jonno

Hmmm.....no security makes you look weaker. Maybe banks should take your advice.

Since me owning a gun is transparent, I don't "look" weak or strong.

If you call that heavy security (simple ownership)...well it sounds kinda wussy.

[Jon L. Obscene]

Our banks have no security guards, only alarms and shutters.

Jonno

Edit: Ok Busyman you got me, I actually am now not sure what it is you're dissagreeing with.
We are talking about the difference between Isreal and countries like the us and uk. And my pov is that all the extra security Isreal is pouring onto it's streets makes it look weak and that the best way to battle terrorism is to show no fear, you cannot prevent, it's impossible to fight an invisible enemy. So rather than show fear by upgrading security by giving every bobby an ak-47, we/I think it's a better policy to try to find the people responsible and get to them that way, eventually you will briong them down from the inside, meanwhile we show they have no effect on our lives and we continue to live not in fear........but just simply in our own lives.

[tralalala]

I would like to reply to a couple posts a few pages back (I would have replied earlier but the bloody board went offline... typical.. ).

So this is what I was gonna write:

@RioDeLeo:

I pronmise one thing to you: If you take statements from a Muslim article, you will always see the Israeli guy as "the bad guy". It's a fact. Sky News in Britain always seem to show Israel as the "bad people", same with the BBC.
People always want to show how bad Israel is all the time, when they do not even consider looking at the situation from the Israeli guys side. These people hate us. We want peace, but quite a few of them don't. We offer a portion of land which is definately enough (as Israel is the only Jewish state, whereas the Palestinians could not just live in Palestine, but in 20 other countries too, so please..).

An Israeli would see a terrorist as a person looking to cause fatalities for this reason: He wants to.
Not all Arabs are terrorists, in fact, only a small percentage of them are, but unfortunately that small percentage reflects the big picture too. The same if you took a class of 30 kids. 3 kids cause havoc in every lesson. Teachers say the class is screwed up.
Small things have big reflections too you know...


@Nikki:
All houses demolished were of the families of the terrorists (i.e their mom and dads house, or their own house if they had one - most of them were too young for one of their own.......).

In todays world, we need to catch these people seeking to kill us and get them first. How do we do that? catch 'em hot handed. The other option: Invading their countries from which they operate and get them from there. The problem: Too many people will condemn that, so it wouldn't work.
Alas, the winning option is more security to catch them.

In Israel, we have lots of guards everywhere so we can walk in the streets not worrying about terrorists, as they are being caught on their way by our guards who PROTECT US. I know it sounds odd, but none of you have lived in such a country surrounded by hatred, needing to protect itself in a very big sort of way.
That is why we are not a police state.
In fact, if we could actually get peace here please god, we may not need to have compulsory army service anymore, but maybe just a minor service (like 1 year instead of 3).


Yes, I think Muslims also want a nice world, but as I wrote above, a little splurge can ruin the whole picture....


Now to the newer replies:

Nikki:
You say lets leave the armed guards, forget 'em. I'd rather be open to attacks than be protected by guards. You'd be gone within a month of that change in Israel.

Jonno:
Your example with the punch up is not a good one and unlike Busy who summed it up in 2 words I'll tell ya why in more detail:

A punch up - I hit someone. He brings backup - I stop hitting him cos I'm worried he and his backup men will hit me.
Terrorism is different. They will try and hit you even if you do have backup.
And, as Busyman said - If I hit someone and he smiles back at me, I'll make his smile fractured within a matter of 2 punches and a boot..

Countries are different, in countries you need to have someone on the watch to make sure there is no havoc, no casualties, no fatalities.
I wouldn't call myself a coward for enjoying the fact that I am safe.

You said someone with excessive guards is weak and paranoid.
I'm not weak. My mum and dad and brother aren't weak.
My friends are not weak. We are also not paranoid.
We live a perfectly normal life, just like you up untill that attack, and yes, we live like you do PLUS we are SAFE as well.

That is why I would call me a precautiose person rather a fearful and weak person.
If we had no guards and security like we do, the chances of me perishing in one of these attacks would be so much higher..!!
Could you imagine losing me Jonno, could you??????!!!!!!!!?!?!?!

I know, I sound mad, and I sound afraid of being kiled, but infact I am not. I am more afraid of losing my family and friends abroad as a result of lack of security. Forget Israels security - that's a different story - we have had too much experience in that feild unfortunately, but now we got hit, we have our backup, and it is now more difficult to hit us back.



Rafi

[Busyman]

The police here carry guns. And it is legal for citizens to have guns. However, to buy a gun, you must first be trained, and then licensed. The types of guns available to the public is much more limited than it is in the US. Only certain individuals may carry concealed weapons, and it is very, very difficult to obtain a license for that - Private investigators, personal bodyguards, highly trained persons. Storage of weapons here is very specific. All weapons must have trigger locks as well as safety mechanisms. They may not be stored loaded. They must be stored in a locked compartment - and ammunition must be stored separately and also locked away. So they are available, but not freely.

That said, the number of gun related deaths in Canada is relatively low in comparison with the US. I'm not sure of exact statistics in this area, so I won't give exact quotes.

I personally don't own a gun. Don't want one, don't feel a need for one. I know very few people who do, most of those are used for deer/goose hunting. I rarely lock my door, though I have had the occasional drunk wander in. I still feel safe.

I don't feel that being passive with no protection is stupid. I don't feel the need for protection, that's the whole point. There IS a police force, yet crime still happens. There IS security in the subways, yet people still get pushed onto the tracks. There IS an intelligence agency in the states, and yet 9/11 happened. You can't prevent everything. Deal with what happens as it happens. Punish the offenders accordingly. Move on. You can't live your life worrying about what might happen - that's no way to live.

One should always strive for perfection even though you can't achieve it. Did Canada change any security measures after 9/11? Probably so. Why do ya think?

Obviously a security hole was exploited so a passive attitude towards that type of thing is stupid. Plain and simple.

If you have young kids and rarely lock your doors, I consider that stupid.

I like you gun laws btw.

[tralalala]

And might I add the post I missed whilst typing my previouse one:

Nikki: Punishing the offenders is not enough, you need to punish the future ones too.
We can catch them.
We should catch them.
We need to catch them.

If we get hit, and look at who hit us, then walk away, why should that stop him from hitting again??

[tralalala]

yet again missed posts.....

Nikki: Rarely locking your doors with kids in the house is a silly thing to do... What IF someone came in and nicked your TV? What IF someone came in and (GOD FORBID) attacked you or kids?
In that case, why not leave you're car open at all times, in fact, what's the need for keys anymore?

9/11 Happened, probably, because of someone sort of missing an eye, not taking it seriously.
That's how the 1973 Yom Kippur war (where Israel was attacked at the same time by Jordan, Egypt and Syria) started, and Israel lost many lives - over 2000. All because of someone who thought nothing's gonna happen, so let's pass on it..

As they say: Better safe than sorry.

And I think that sums it up don't you?




P.S: EDIT: We also have those same gun rules. Only after trained and licensed may you handle a gun publicly.

[Jon L. Obscene]

@Rafi...... dude I never said YOU'RE weak, I'm talking about the apperence your country gives.
And this crap about if you hit someone and he smiled you'd break his face, omg get out of terminator mode both of you, if you hit me and I smiled you would not be thinking you're gonna break my face. I've seen it happen, it casts fear. You hit someone as hard as you can and they smile at you, what you gonna do? hit em again so they smile at you again?
Thing to think about is.......what is happening while they are smiling at you?

It makes perfect sense, we've always called bullies weak becase they will be 1 big lad protected by others, take his mates away and he's weak, whereas people like me will stand alone and stand his ground.

It's just a scale thing.

Jonno

Oh and Rafi.......Living your life by "What if's" is no good, what if I fall of my bike today? what if I get hit by a car today? what if I slip in the shower and hit my head today?

[tralalala]

Again, put it all into scales: Safety from terrorists is far more "bigger" shall we say, than falling in the shower.
Terrorism is something people do to you. The other examples you gave were just bad luck that happens to you.

You can generally control you're life by living it, as wild as can be, but making sure you don't get into dodgy "zones", and by that way, making the "Better safe than sorry" phrase a well placed one.