Barack's Speech

[ilw]

gotta agree that the 'like family' excuse is pathetic, but the rest of the speech was pretty good. Certainly better than anything I've seen any of your other candidates (or your president) muster up. I think he'd still get my vote if i was a merkin.

[j2k4]

gotta agree that the 'like family' excuse is pathetic, but the rest of the speech was pretty good. Certainly better than anything I've seen any of your other candidates (or your president) muster up. I think he'd still get my vote if i was a merkin.

So all it takes to get your vote is a pretty mouth?

BTW-

Here's a wee secret:

Take away Barack's teleprompter and he's almost on a par with Bush.

Truth.

[Biggles]

At this stage there is bound to be jostling for position to get leverage on the various candidates.

As far as one can see, if one strips away the dressing, these three dishes all look as if they might taste like chicken. Is there that big a choice for the US electorate this time round?

Is religion that big an issue for any of them?

Is it feasible that Obama didn't pay that much attention to the pastor and his comments because he wasn't that interested?

Were the comments anti-American or merely a yearning for a different kind of America? Pastor's are allowed to be idealistic - indeed, isn't it compulsory?

A $20,000 dollar donation to a man of Obama's means might not be desperately excessive. Has Bush or Clinton donated money to their home church and if so how much? Is such a donation really anything more than the usual political kissing of babies?

Has Obama ever said any of the things that the eccentric pastor has said or is this purely guilt by association? How many of the said pastor's sermons over the last 20 years have been uncontroversial?

All things that are relevant to the discussion but what is the level of interest amongst the voters? Are there any polls on likely voting intentions regarding turnout? Are the voters engaged or are they falling asleep?

[j2k4]

Is religion that big an issue for any of them?

It becomes an issue when the circumstances are such as Obama's; when the leader of one's church engages in such racially-charged and inflammatory sermonizing.

Is it feasible that Obama didn't pay that much attention to the pastor and his comments because he wasn't that interested?

Feasible?

I suppose so, though for one running for the Big Office, it's kinda dumb, considering the micro-examination candidates are subject to, don't you think?

Were the comments anti-American or merely a yearning for a different kind of America? Pastor's are allowed to be idealistic - indeed, isn't it compulsory?

Rev. Wright's "comments" were, at a minimum, very anti-white/pro-black (take your pick); as I said before, he started this church, and built a congregation of 8,000+...the natural assumption is that his message goes over pretty big.

Alongside this, we have the anecdotal fact that none other than Oprah Winfrey quit Wright's church because she judged his sermons to be a bit much.

Last I checked, Oprah is still black.

Has Obama ever said any of the things that the eccentric pastor has said or is this purely guilt by association? How many of the said pastor's sermons over the last 20 years have been uncontroversial?

Not the point, Les.

He sat there and took it all in, apparently without objection, as least until it became clear it could have a deleterious effect on his candidacy.

Bill Clinton (you remember him, of course; the greatest political mind of all-time, and the black president who preceded Barack) would not have been so blind.

All things that are relevant to the discussion but what is the level of interest amongst the voters? Are there any polls on likely voting intentions regarding turnout? Are the voters engaged or are they falling asleep?

No one can tell, so far this side of the actual contest, but many of us are laughing at the libs, who are tripping all over themselves trying to figure out who they will present as their candidate.

There will likely be a massive blood-letting on the democrat side shortly, and frankly, it should be great fun to watch.

[Biggles]

I am not sure why but I keep expecting Hillary, a la some sort of South Park scenario, to mutate into a scary monster (OK more scary) and eat Obama, burp and then turn into a sweet flower of Democratic womanhood again.

I need to stop watching South Park

To be less mean, all three candidates seem much more middle-of-the-road than the options offered in recent years. McCain does not come across as a die hard Conservative and one suspects that were he to succeed he would shift even more comfortably to the middle ground to accommodate the wider constituency upon victory...or am I missing something?

[ilw]

The absurdity ... will crest over the coming week as the nation watches, ... as King is lauded on one side and Barack Obama's former preacher, Jeremiah Wright, remains lambasted on the other.

Wright is no King. His delivery is too shrill, his demeanour too hectoring, his message insufficiently unifying. Nonetheless, Wright and King come from the same tradition of militant religious leadership that has been a hallmark of black political life for well over a century. Under slavery and then segregation, the church was one of the few places that African-Americans could gather and organise autonomously - giving primacy, for better and for worse, to the pulpit and the preacher in black politics.

"The principal social institution within every black community was the church," writes historian Manning Marable in his book Black Leadership. "As political leaders, the black clergy were usually the primary spokespersons for the entire black community, especially during periods of crisis ... To some extent, this tradition has been characterised by a charismatic or dominating political style."

It is unlikely King would have fared any better on YouTube or the blogosphere than Wright did. King, like Wright, was excoriated for opposing the "senseless and unjust war" in Vietnam. "The reaction was like a torrent of hate and venom," recalled one of his aides, Andrew Young. "As a Nobel prizewinner we expected people not to agree with it, but to take it seriously. We didn't get that. We got an emotional outburst attacking his right to have an opinion."

A few months before he died, King told parishioners at his church in Montgomery, Alabama: "We are criminals in that war ... We've committed more war crimes almost than any nation in the world ... But God has a way of even putting nations in their place." And how would God deal with an unrepentant America? "And if you don't stop your reckless course, I'll rise up and break the backbone of your power."

After a few loops of that on 24-hour cable TV, it's not difficult to imagine the anchors pressuring Bobby Kennedy to disavow all association with such a wayward black preacher.

Also watched one of Wright's sermons which the fox clips are pulled from, and quite frankly in context its really not so bad. His fire and brimstone delivery and the 9/11 conspiracy are messed up, but i get the impression that many merkin preachers are sensationalist (a result of strong market forces at work?)


edit: for the record i'm sitting on the fence, all god botherers are nuts.

[Biggles]

The absurdity ... will crest over the coming week as the nation watches, ... as King is lauded on one side and Barack Obama's former preacher, Jeremiah Wright, remains lambasted on the other.

Wright is no King. His delivery is too shrill, his demeanour too hectoring, his message insufficiently unifying. Nonetheless, Wright and King come from the same tradition of militant religious leadership that has been a hallmark of black political life for well over a century. Under slavery and then segregation, the church was one of the few places that African-Americans could gather and organise autonomously - giving primacy, for better and for worse, to the pulpit and the preacher in black politics.

"The principal social institution within every black community was the church," writes historian Manning Marable in his book Black Leadership. "As political leaders, the black clergy were usually the primary spokespersons for the entire black community, especially during periods of crisis ... To some extent, this tradition has been characterised by a charismatic or dominating political style."

It is unlikely King would have fared any better on YouTube or the blogosphere than Wright did. King, like Wright, was excoriated for opposing the "senseless and unjust war" in Vietnam. "The reaction was like a torrent of hate and venom," recalled one of his aides, Andrew Young. "As a Nobel prizewinner we expected people not to agree with it, but to take it seriously. We didn't get that. We got an emotional outburst attacking his right to have an opinion."

A few months before he died, King told parishioners at his church in Montgomery, Alabama: "We are criminals in that war ... We've committed more war crimes almost than any nation in the world ... But God has a way of even putting nations in their place." And how would God deal with an unrepentant America? "And if you don't stop your reckless course, I'll rise up and break the backbone of your power."

After a few loops of that on 24-hour cable TV, it's not difficult to imagine the anchors pressuring Bobby Kennedy to disavow all association with such a wayward black preacher.

Also watched one of Wright's sermons which the fox clips are pulled from, and quite frankly in context its really not so bad. His fire and brimstone delivery and the 9/11 conspiracy are messed up, but i get the impression that many merkin preachers are sensationalist (a result of strong market forces at work?)


edit: for the record i'm sitting on the fence, all god botherers are nuts.

Fair point well presented. There are a fair number of churches where one can hear some fairly radical stuff every Sunday - Fred Phelpps' mob are much nastier.

I seem to recall that Carter's church wouldn't let black people be deacons of the church - he voted against that rule but he didn't leave when it was passed as far as I am aware (although Kev isn't one of Carter's biggest fans anyhoo as I recall )

[Snee]

The Daily Show's first take on it.

There was another segment as well that covered media rections to it, that was pretty ace but I can't find it now.