What Is Your Christianity?

[rf9rider]

My Opinion; Ban religion, everybody be more spiritual, respect others, just get on with youre life, we are only here for a short time, enjoy it!

[Tikibonbon]

and has been translated numerous times by man

more people need to realize that the bible has been rewritten numerous times by various ruling people to fit their political needs, hence many still use the "king james" version.

[thewizeard]

I thought this was not about defending one religion , but about describing it....

[J'Pol]

Thanks nigel, I was going to say something similar, tho' I try to read all posts before I do.

A chap asked us to describe what we believe (at least he asked those of Christian faith). I have done this in the spirit I take it to be intended, i.e. that he was genuinely interested in what people believe.

I really don't have the inclination to try to explain it to people, no offence, I am really not into that sort of thing. However I will say that I do not worship a book. There are several books which I really like - God Bless You Mr Rosewater is one of them, but I don't worship it. I am sure a lot of Christians get annoyed when people say these things - "oh they go to Church and worship a book". What do people base these things on, their encyclopedic knowledge of Christianity or their regular attendance at Church or both perhaps.

Oh and thanks for that MagicN - More of a Nicene Creed man myself, but that's not important right now.

If you don't believe that baptism removes original sin then you will have serious problems with transubstantiation.

[Gemby!]

same - i didnt say stuff i believed in for someone to tell me its wrong !! thats just rude !!


my life aint puuurrr fect - i am still stuck in this glass

[Billy_Dean]

My "point" in starting this thread was to understand EXACTLY what christians believe their god to be. I hear many interpretations of what it means to be christian, which was why I quoted the "fundamentals.

What I would like your views on really centres on your god. It seems to me that if your god doesn't look act and speak like us, then you can't truly be a christian. If, as most christians claim, the bible is the word of god, there can be no doubt that he has a human form. As an example, read the whole story of the battle of Jericho.

As you may expect from me, I do have an ulterior motive. His name is John Shelby Spong. This man also declares that he is a christian, yet he holds much different views to , say, JPaul. I'll quote more from him later.




Edit: typo.

[MagicNakor]

Originally posted by Billy_Dean@27 September 2003 - 09:35
...This man also declares that he is a christian, yet he holds much different views to , say, JPaul. I'll quote more from him later.

Likely because he's Episcopal, and JPaul's Catholic.

[Billy_Dean]

This is a quote from Bishop Spong. The full text is here;
"Can One Be a Christian without Being a Theist?"

Theism is the historic way men and women have been taught to think about God. Most people think theism is the only conceivable way to think about God. The primary image of God in the Bible is a theistic image.

By that I mean that God is conceived of as a Being, even the Supreme Being, external to this world, supernatural in power, and operating on this world in some fashion to call this world and those of us who inhabit it into the divine will or the divine presence. This theistic Being is inevitably portrayed in human terms as a person who has a will, who loves, who rewards and who punishes. One can find other images of God in the scriptures, but this is the predominant and the familiar one.

Theism is also the primary understanding of God revealed in the liturgies of the Christian churches, including the various Anglican Books of Common Prayer. There the God we meet is described as a Being who desires our praises, elicits our confessions, reveals to us the divine will and who calls us into the spiritual life of communion with this Divine Being.

So dominant is this theistic understanding of God that if one rejects theism, one is thought to be an a-theist. An atheist is defined as one who dismisses the theistic concept of God and, since theism exhausts most people's definition of God, an atheist by definition is one who rejects the concept that God might be real.

So when one is confronted with the question, "Can one be a Christian without being a theist?" it opens vast doors for further thought and theological speculation.

This question becomes askable only when one lives in a world that has rendered the traditional theistic view of God inoperative. We may not like to confront that reality, but in a real sense, this is what the post-modern world forces the contemporary religious community to face. The Supernatural Being that we have traditionally called God has increasingly been rendered impotent by the explosion in human knowledge over the last five hundred years.

The views of this man are the basis for this thread, I would hope for some constructive critisism here, and not an attack on the man.
His latest book, "A New Christianity For a New World" needs reading to fully understand his views.
BTW, I do not agree with everything he says, I just find his "modern" outlook refreshing.




Edit: Added last paragraph.

[J'Pol]

Sorry, am I missing the point. I read what this chap has written , or at least what has been quoted above. I have no problem with it whatsoever, I do not have an image of God in human terms, that would be ludicrous.

However to be a Christian is surely to follow the teachings of Christ. If he believes what Christ taught and follows those teachings then he is a Christian. If not then he is not a Christian. The teachings are obviously open to interpretation and were made at a time when the oral tradition was much stronger. The telling of stories was more the norm and stories and parables were used to illustrate points.

I believe that we should take these teachings within a modern framework and consider what they mean to us, within the context of our own lives.

[Billy_Dean]

Maybe you could read the whole article JP, that was only a small part.

I quote you here only to bring your post closer.

This is what I believe, I speak for myself and not for other people.

I believe in one God, the Father, the Almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all that is, seen and unseen.
I believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father,
God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God,
begotten, not made, of one Being with the Father.
Through him all things were made.
For us men and for our salvation, he came down from heaven:
by the power of the Holy Spirit he was born of the Virgin Mary, and became man.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate; he suffered died and was buried.
On the third day he rose again in fulfillment of the Scriptures;
he ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead,
and his kingdom will have no end.

I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father and the Son.
With the Father and the Son he is worshipped and glorified.
He has spoken through the Prophets.
I believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church.
I acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
I look for the resurrection of the dead,
and the life of the world to come.
Amen.

You see, this, to me, looks as though you believe in a literal translation of the bible, in which your god is in human form.

Now, my problem with Jesus is just this point. I believe he lived, and I believe he died. You don't. If Jesus was the son of god, and entered heaven ....

On the third day he rose again in fulfillment of the Scriptures;
he ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father.

.. as a man, flesh and blood, does that not make god and heaven also "physical"?

My reason for this query, is the "authority" afforded to Jesus. Would you feel the same about a Jesus who was born mortal, like you and I? And was the "son of god" only in the way you also see yourself as being a son of god?