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Thread: Wikileaks

  1. #21
    Burnsy's Avatar TorrentSeed.org RIP BT Rep: +1
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    Quote Originally Posted by clocker View Post
    Reading comprehension fail.

    To put it simply, post 9/11 no one- repeat, NO ONE, in the media ever questioned the total pack of lies fed by the Bush administration regarding the reasoning for invading Iraq.
    It was all about "patriotism" and "supporting our troops" and stupid ribbons on your bumper.
    No-one in the British Army believed that bullshit either... we were just happy to go and do something... we didn't care where. Saddam was a cunt who deserved a kicking and got it... and the yanks kept banging on about whatever it was, trying to make the world believe that Iraq were in some way responsible for harbouring Al Qieada (or however the fuck you spell it) despite Bin Laden and Saddam, hating each other... in some ways the USA are admirable in the way they support whatever they are fed, no matter what... but in other ways... they come across as ignorant fuckwits, who believe whatever they are fed...

    Yank troops... all the gear but no idea... Brit troops... saved a lot of things happening that shouldn't have happened, and all because this bravado overtook their sense of right and wrong... is it really a shootable offence for a 15 yr old lad to throw stones at a UK/USA checkpoint because he has nothing to drink? According to a NY Yankees reservist it was justifiable??!!

    Quote Originally Posted by clocker View Post
    Yeah, it's not at all improbable that Assange will "mysteriously" die within a year.
    More than likely and disgustingly so...

    Quote Originally Posted by HeavyMetalParkingLot View Post
    Assange has stated the wikileaks will probably end up with blood on its hands due to some of what is released...not real "noble" to serve up someone else's life.
    So it's bullshit, is it, that 'spies' who go into the job to fuck over others, knowing full well they are supported by their respective governments suddenly end up exposed? It's the nature if the job, and if they don't have a decent 'escape' then, tbh, they were full of shite anyway...

    Quote Originally Posted by clocker View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by HeavyMetalParkingLot View Post
    Assange has stated the wikileaks will probably end up with blood on its hands due to some of what is released...not real "noble" to serve up someone else's life.
    So, it's far more ethical to preserve the secrecy that allows the US (and it's allies) to continue drone bombing civilians in Pakistan, making deals with corrupt Saudi leaders in exchange for oil (on their terms, of course) and supporting the inept/unpopular government of Afghanistan?

    Why is it that governments (and their real corporate leaders) are allowed to operate on a completely separate moral plane than individuals?
    Why have banks/Wall Street been allowed to completely gut the world's financial structure and suffer no penalty?
    Why do either of the above get to don a cloak of secrecy and claim "national security" as the excuse, when the same convenient self-serving defense would have zero traction for you as an individual?

    Why is the outcry over what Wikileaks did more clamorous than the outrage at what was exposed?

    Is the "free press" only free when they service the goals of government?
    Totally agree with that...
    Quote Originally Posted by IdolEyes787 View Post
    I'd comment further but it would obviously be like trying to reason with a dung beetle.

  2. The Drawing Room   -   #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by iLOVENZB View Post
    I would like a question answered; What defines a journalist?

    How can 'professional' American journalist who work for American publishers not be threatened with execution for treason while a internet activist, who isn't even a U.S. citizen be?

    Not that it matters because as far as I am aware Assange is being trialed for rape allegations not his involvement as a "terrorist organization". It's just a coincidence the rape allegations came shortly after sensitive cables were leaked.
    There is much talk in the US of trying to extradite Assange to America and trying him for espionage.
    In the meantime there will probably be attempts to bring the Espionage Act of 1917 to bear on anyone who supports or expands on Wikileaks efforts.
    Consumate slimeball Sen. Joe Lieberman has already called on the US Attorney General to do exactly this.

    Fox News, already well practised in the art of confusing dissent with treason, has Bill O'Reilly leading their campaign to muzzle the American people and airwaves...pretty much exactly like Joseph Goebbels did in Nazi Germany.
    A free society cannot exist without a free press and the ability to question/expose the government.

    I can't really see how this works out anymore.
    It used to be relatively easy to stifle the flow of information but the internet has really changed the landscape and it's no longer possible to silence a few outlets and control the flow of data, so without a really repressive and egregiously obvious crackdown, I'm not sure what can be done to stop the "damage".
    "I am the one who knocks."- Heisenberg

  3. The Drawing Room   -   #23
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    Agreed. Very well put, clocker. Wikilinks is doing what journalist are supposed to do- expose corruption, give the masses something other than state-fed propaganda to discuss AND express their outrage against. All this is done to keep government reigned in.

    Free speech/free press are not about warm, cuddly thoughts and well-wishes. Nobody needs to be protected for saying such pleasantries. It is the individual who points out corruption, or who offends, who needs protection to say such things.
    Quote Originally Posted by IdolEyes787 View Post
    Ghey lumberjacks, wolverines, blackflies in the summer, polar bears in the winter, that's basically Canada in a nutshell.

  4. The Drawing Room   -   #24
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    Surprised/Amazed

    So, megabyteme, you are saying that freedom of speech trumps a persons life?

    People are always saying do not judge Muslims by the actions of a few extremists. Ok, I can understand that. So when the nonextremists turn in these extremists to help stop them, they should have their names put out there for the extremists to be able to look up and retaliate against them and their families?

    I am sorry, but I can not buy that.

    P.S. Why is there absolutely nothing in the leaks that mentions the Israel/Lebanon conflicts? I find it hard to believe that the U.S. had nothing what so ever to communicate about that. Surely someone who feels information should be free wouldn't leave out pertinent information like that.

    OT: whats with the noneditable smilie on the top of this post?
    Last edited by HeavyMetalParkingLot; 12-11-2010 at 01:23 PM.

  5. The Drawing Room   -   #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeavyMetalParkingLot View Post

    P.S. Why is there absolutely nothing in the leaks that mentions the Israel/Lebanon conflicts? I find it hard to believe that the U.S. had nothing what so ever to communicate about that. Surely someone who feels information should be free wouldn't leave out pertinent information like that.
    Only about 1% of the material has been released so far, so wait and see.
    "I am the one who knocks."- Heisenberg

  6. The Drawing Room   -   #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by iLOVENZB View Post
    Noob question: Why are they called cables and not something like documents?
    When communications ran on telegram, special (secret) cables were laid for diplomats to use for sensitive messages. If it was from the "diplomatic cable" it was supposed to be privileged information.

    Quote Originally Posted by clocker
    A free society cannot exist without a free press and the ability to question/expose the government.
    Since this is one of the founding principles of your country and enshrined in the Constitution, the reactions are all the more disturbing. The cognitive dissonance down there must be extreme; however, this does explain many popular "media personalities" and politicians.

    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
    Quote Originally Posted by HeavyMetalParkingLot
    P.S. Why is there absolutely nothing in the leaks that mentions the Israel/Lebanon conflicts? I find it hard to believe that the U.S. had nothing what so ever to communicate about that. Surely someone who feels information should be free wouldn't leave out pertinent information like that.
    It's clear through his interviews that Assange has a motive outside freedom of information. His motivation (an end to involvement in Middle Eastern wars) and its impact on any Wikileaks documents is a separate (albeit related) topic though-- the events documented would have occurred regardless, the only difference is that they are now public.

    Just a quick search reveals at least one cable regarding Lebanon/Israel/USA (sent from Embassy Beirut).

    Spoiler: Show


    Supposedly this is an "exclusive" to Al-Akhbar, but rumours suggest that it was leaked from Wikileaks as their publishing schedule is not controlled by one person. Wikileaks has (to date) published 1295/251,287 documents. You don't start right off with the good stuff.



    Let's see if it eats this post.
    things are quiet until hitler decides he'd like to invade russia
    so, he does
    the russians are like "OMG WTF D00DZ, STOP TKING"
    and the germans are still like "omg ph34r n00bz"
    the russians fall back, all the way to moscow
    and then they all begin h4xing, which brings on the russian winter
    the germans are like "wtf, h4x"
    -- WW2 for the l33t

  7. The Drawing Room   -   #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by MagicNakor View Post
    The cognitive dissonance down there must be extreme...
    You presuppose the presence of cognition, which is ah, dubious.
    "I am the one who knocks."- Heisenberg

  8. The Drawing Room   -   #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeavyMetalParkingLot View Post
    So, megabyteme, you are saying that freedom of speech trumps a persons life?

    People are always saying do not judge Muslims by the actions of a few extremists. Ok, I can understand that. So when the nonextremists turn in these extremists to help stop them, they should have their names put out there for the extremists to be able to look up and retaliate against them and their families?

    I am sorry, but I can not buy that.

    P.S. Why is there absolutely nothing in the leaks that mentions the Israel/Lebanon conflicts? I find it hard to believe that the U.S. had nothing what so ever to communicate about that. Surely someone who feels information should be free wouldn't leave out pertinent information like that.

    OT: whats with the noneditable smilie on the top of this post?
    Can you post the document/report you are referring to? There are limitations a journalist should put on the information being released, I'll agree with that. However, much of what has been released by wikilinks NEEDS to be discussed and brought to the attention of the American citizens- and the rest of the world, honestly. This has not been done by the obviously in-pocket "news" sources who have a duty to bring us news- not just cute stories, consumerism, and propaganda.

    As for stories that bring about injury/death. The Rodney King tape comes to mind here. Should that tape have been kept out of public viewing? People got injured (killed?) because of its airing and resulting riots. That was newsworthy, IMO. It showed an underlying problem- racism, brutality, and out-of-control police in LA. People needed to be aware of the problem so it could be changed.

    Not showing/releasing the documents showing corruption, and special interests will do nothing but allow it to continue AND grow. Backlash results when appropriate (sometimes lethal) reactions occur in the face of injustice. Ignorance may seem nicer, but it never results in fixing a problem that already exists. These things need to be brought to light.
    Quote Originally Posted by IdolEyes787 View Post
    Ghey lumberjacks, wolverines, blackflies in the summer, polar bears in the winter, that's basically Canada in a nutshell.

  9. The Drawing Room   -   #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeavyMetalParkingLot View Post

    People are always saying do not judge Muslims by the actions of a few extremists. Ok, I can understand that. So when the nonextremists turn in these extremists to help stop them, they should have their names put out there for the extremists to be able to look up and retaliate against them and their families?
    Has this actually happened or is it a theoretical scenario?
    "I am the one who knocks."- Heisenberg

  10. The Drawing Room   -   #30
    Quote Originally Posted by clocker View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by HeavyMetalParkingLot View Post

    People are always saying do not judge Muslims by the actions of a few extremists. Ok, I can understand that. So when the nonextremists turn in these extremists to help stop them, they should have their names put out there for the extremists to be able to look up and retaliate against them and their families?
    Has this actually happened or is it a theoretical scenario?
    Even if it is a theoretical scenario, what do you think about it?
    Who can take your money and give it to someone else? The Government Can! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LO2eh...layer_embedded

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