Altered Carbon

[Proper Bo]

Originally posted by danb+9 August 2004 - 20:19--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (danb @ 9 August 2004 - 20:19)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by Proper Bo@ I tell thee,9 August 2004 - 20:18
<!--QuoteBegin- Brenda

Apparently scientists in Japan are somehow, able to download memories of people before they die to be implanted into another living body

I&#39;m sure that&#39;s the plot to a Ch5 TV porno I&#39;ve seen

Starring the dude out of Airwolf by any chance? [/b][/quote]
WTF&#39;s Airwolf?

It sounds 80&#39;s, i was only 4 at the end of the 80&#39;s

[DanB]

Originally posted by Proper Bo, I tell thee+9 August 2004 - 20:22--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Proper Bo, I tell thee @ 9 August 2004 - 20:22)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by danb+9 August 2004 - 20:19--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (danb &#064; 9 August 2004 - 20:19)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Proper Bo@ I tell thee,9 August 2004 - 20:18
<!--QuoteBegin- Brenda

Apparently scientists in Japan are somehow, able to download memories of people before they die to be implanted into another living body

I&#39;m sure that&#39;s the plot to a Ch5 TV porno I&#39;ve seen

Starring the dude out of Airwolf by any chance? [/b][/quote]
WTF&#39;s Airwolf?

It sounds 80&#39;s, i was only 4 at the end of the 80&#39;s [/b][/quote]
young whipper snapper



sorry SnnY

[Snee]

Originally posted by Proper Bo+ I tell thee,9 August 2004 - 21:22--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Proper Bo &#064; I tell thee,9 August 2004 - 21:22)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by danb+9 August 2004 - 20:19--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (danb &#064; 9 August 2004 - 20:19)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Proper Bo@ I tell thee,9 August 2004 - 20:18
<!--QuoteBegin- Brenda

Apparently scientists in Japan are somehow, able to download memories of people before they die to be implanted into another living body

I&#39;m sure that&#39;s the plot to a Ch5 TV porno I&#39;ve seen

Starring the dude out of Airwolf by any chance? [/b][/quote]
WTF&#39;s Airwolf?

It sounds 80&#39;s, i was only 4 at the end of the 80&#39;s [/b][/quote]
Bloody crap tv-series.

I think it revolves around a helicopter prototype.

Looked to me to be a rather good helicopter too, what with it occasionally defying the laws of physics.

@danb: sorry for what? I posted in the lounge, this is to be expected.

[DanB]

Airwolf was the nuts

It growled and stuff too

[Snee]

Originally posted by brenda@9 August 2004 - 21:14
As for freezing bodies and downloading brains, well its already happing, check this out out.........

curing death

and in particular this place.........

cryonics community

These links were very interesting, tho&#39; I must say that there&#39;s a cult like feel to it.

[tracydani]

he question is, and I have been thinking a lot about this, whether you would still be you.

I mean, don&#39;t we consider ourselves to be our brains, in a manner of speaking?

I would think it would still be you. I am assuming that all the things you know and think/feel(not physically) would be on the drive as well.

So it seems to me that he identifies himself by the information in his hard-drive rather than that in his mind.

I believe according to the book, they are one and the same in the end. At least until he is tranfered to another body, then I am assuming the old body no longer has his memories etc.

Sounds like a good book. I will need to look for it.

TD

[brenda]

Originally posted by SnnY@9 August 2004 - 19:20
How would you consider the hypothetical situation of having had the hard-drive in your head before you became self aware?

Would you consider the information in there as much "you", as that in your brain?

I think that to a degree we do have a kind of hard-drive that is active before we are self aware. For instance no-one can remember being born and yet will all existed in the womb. Psycholanyalisis favours the idea that we only become self away when we recognise that we are a seperate entity from our mothers, perhaps rather than recongising this as a state of independance it could be regonised that we are always connected to others though shared experience. Therefore our &#39;hard-drive&#39;s&#39; may all contain silmilar information. This then raises question of the possiblity of a universal mind to which we all contribute and utilise.

The second question is a bit more difficult for me to get my head round, because the seriousness of all this is frying my brain However I&#39;ll try.......

I think that if there was a hard-drive in my head instead of a brain, and that hard-drive had existed prior to me becoming self aware, then yes, I would consider the information in there as much "me" as that in my brain. I&#39;m thinking about the kid in A.I. and robot in Millenium Man...... I know that there are cultural references rather than actual examples but I feel that they are representative of our relationship with technology.

I also tihnk that science-fiction has a much shorter life than it did saw a century ago. Victorian predictions of the future such as the submarine were eventually realised, but in todays fast paced world no sooner is a fictional idea written about than it becomes reality. Science fiction has become the fast-food of the world of literature.

"I&#39;ll have 1 cyborg and a side order of micro-bugs please"

"your order will be ready to collect at window 2 please have the correct change ready, have a nice day"

[Snee]

@ TD He seems to be somewhat dismissive of his body at times though. At least that was the impression I got.

He goes through a couple.

And yes, it seems the old mind gets erased from the body as the information is removed, in the instances the body isn&#39;t killed.

It seems to me that a copy of myself wouldn&#39;t be me, as the information that was me gets erased even though there is a copy.

But I&#39;d make a distinction between having had that hard-drive inside me since before I became self-aware, and having it implanted now.

In the former case I&#39;d consider the copy to be more me, somehow.

[Snee]

Originally posted by brenda+9 August 2004 - 21:46--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (brenda &#064; 9 August 2004 - 21:46)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-SnnY@9 August 2004 - 19:20
How would you consider the hypothetical situation of having had the hard-drive in your head before you became self aware?

Would you consider the information in there as much "you", as that in your brain?

I think that to a degree we do have a kind of hard-drive that is active before we are self aware. For instance no-one can remember being born and yet will all existed in the womb. Psycholanyalisis favours the idea that we only become self away when we recognise that we are a seperate entity from our mothers, perhaps rather than recongising this as a state of independance it could be regonised that we are always connected to others though shared experience. Therefore our &#39;hard-drive&#39;s&#39; may all contain silmilar information. This then raises question of the possiblity of a universal mind to which we all contribute and utilise.


[/b][/quote]
I have had thoughts in the same direction myself. I tend to think of humanity as pool of water, the more influence we have, the more rings we make, and the longer it takes our external selves to die.

This is perhaps the only way to become truly immortal, to have such a lasting effect that our influence never dies.

But then again, everything we do affects the lives of others.

But I tend to think of immortality as the survival of my mind, or at least my thoughts, my conscious influence on others at the very least.

The second question is a bit more difficult for me to get my head round, because the seriousness of all this is frying my brain However I&#39;ll try.......

I think that if there was a hard-drive in my head instead of a brain, and that hard-drive had existed prior to me becoming self aware, then yes, I would consider the information in there as much "me" as that in my brain. I&#39;m thinking about the kid in A.I. and robot in Millenium Man...... I know that there are cultural references rather than actual examples but I feel that they are representative of our relationship with technology.

I think I feel sort of the same with regards to having always had it there. But I can&#39;t be sure until I&#39;ve tried it.

And I find the examples you brought up interesting as well.
They are unique, yet simulations of human minds, if we can accept the thought of them as individuals then we also have to accept the thought of a copy of ourselves as a continuation of ourselves, or at least an offspring of sorts.

I also tihnk that science-fiction has a much shorter life than it did saw a century ago. Victorian predictions of the future such as the submarine were eventually realised, but in todays fast paced world no sooner is a fictional idea written about than it becomes reality. Science fiction has become the fast-food of the world of literature.

"I&#39;ll have 1 cyborg and a side order of micro-bugs please"

"your order will be ready to collect at window 2 please have the correct change ready, have a nice day"

There are subcathegories to sci-fi I think. There will always be the commercialised variety with a brief half-life as well as the timeless classics.

It&#39;s just hard to tell which is which with regards to the most immediate ones.


EDit: form.

[brenda]

Yes I think you are right about the quality of sci-fi and the sub-categories, I think their most important role is to blend the relationship we have as humans with the technology that we can sometimes see as a threat, although I also feel that they expand the imagination and teach us to (or remind us how to) suspend our belief.

I did quite a lot of research last year into sci-fi when writting a criticall assessment of Constance Penley&#39;s stsatement that "going into space - both the actuality of it and its science fiction realisation - has become the prime metaphor through which we try to make sense of the word of science and technology and imagine a place for ourselves within it."