Sikh School To Be Built In Slough, England.

[hobbes]

I don't get why public money should go to private interest schools.

What does religion have to do with "deserving money" to build a school.

We can argue about what the government spends money on, but my point is that, as a society, we seem to think that a role of government is to provide an educational system.

You learn to read and write and 'rithmatic.

Education has nothing to do with religion. Teaching religion is NOT a goal of the educational system and therefore is not a requiste function of the government.

If I were to move to England, would I be entitled to a public funded school because I want a "Creationism" school? Hell no, I moved to England. I either learn deal with their school system, tutor my children at home, privately fund a school with like minded individuals, or go elesewhere.

This has nothing to do with Sikhs' per se, it has to do with what we think the government is entitled to provide.

They need provide a system of education. Religion can be introduced in the context of social studies, but should no specific religion should be indoctrinated into the children.

Religious choice is a right of personal freedom and should be pursued in ones personal time. It has no role in the educational process, and as such, would make it a perk for interested individuals and not a duty for the government.

The government does not provide Sikh bridges, Sihk spaceships, Sihk Natural parks, or Sihk hospitals. It provides bridges, spaceships, Natural parks and hospitals for everyone, schools should be no different.

You want a special interest school, you fund it.

[hobbes]

Hobbes

If our Government is willing to fund these schools and the UK citizens who have replied are content with that like, then the Govt is following our wishes.

You have seperation of Church and State like, we do not . Maybe that's the difference.

You think this is a good idea? Really? So anybody who moves from anywhere is entitled to your money because they want a school?

One lives and learns.

[hobbes]

Hobbes

i agree with your opinion about the state funding religious teachings, however every school, in the Uk at least, has to teach the basic curriculum and the state usually pays for that in schools where parents are not charged. The sikh comunity in this case has to contribute a certain amount financially for the building and i would imagine would have to raise money for other things once the school opens. This area has a large amount of sikhs and they may not necessarily be immigrants as the original poster of the topic on the other forum seems to be suggesting. This community pay their taxes like everyone else so a "grant" from the state to build and run the "national education standard" side is well within the bounds of even the American constitution (IMO) ...the rest is up to the school to raise funds.

See if I get your point Vidcc.

Sikhs pay for school in the form of tax and therefore derserve a school. They want to take the basic school and sort of "upgrade" it to a special Sihk school.

Where I grew up, schools were supported by local city property taxes. If someone wanted to go outside thier district, they would have to pay for it. Many of our school employees brought in their own kids as a loophole as we had a fine public school.

Let me suppose that the Jewish people in the area said to the State that they were willing to put up additional money to convert it into a Jewish school. The State said fine, well give you what you pay in property taxes and you foot the rest.

Meanwhile, my school is now a Jewish school. By the nature of public funding, I would have the right to go there, but in practice it might be a bit uncomfortable. Also my parents would not want me going there.

Where is my school now. Does the government need to build one for me?

I think it a bad idea for the government to get involved in this type of endeavor.

[kazaaman]

Well then why doesn't the government change the law. Allow the turbans. All that'll happen is that the sikh kids will stand out more than anyone else. But there should be a decent amount of them, so they won't stick out too much. This way you won't have to pay higher taxes.

[TheDave]

i think you're mixing france and england up



hobbes what are you talking about? they aren't converting a school to be religious, they're starting it from the ground up. now if they were converting it i would have a problem.

[hobbes]

To continue what I was saying to Vidcc:

Big picture, I think as humans living together in a country, we should integrate and not separate. Prejudice only flourishes in the setting of ignorance and that is what separate schools will promote.

This is primarily important in gradeschool as this is where many of our beliefs are laid into our still malleable clay and set forever. This is where allegiance to town, country, religion, sports team, and race are formed, and often done so without our concious knowledge.

As Jpol has his faith, no logical discussion can shake it, as it is set within his clay-long dried. Why I still consider myself a St. Louisian even though I haven't lived their for 15 years. It is where I was formed. For you soccer fans, would you change alliance in favorite soccer team due to moving to a new location or a witty argument? Hell no, you live and die with every match.

Such import years for all the children to get know each other. Rather than needing to rely on what adults tell them what other people are like, they know because they have meet them and grown up with them.

I would far rather you hate because I am an ass, rather than simply because I am white and you were told that white people are evil.

Such an opportunity lost.

But I can see how some would disagree with me. They want their kids to grow up and believe what they do. They want them to believe the party line, and they fear for the loss of faith or belief such open experience might bring.


As a relevant example, consider 9/11. Had I grown up with Muslim children, I'm sure I would have had a much better understanding of what a "typical muslim" is like. When 9/11 occured I would have a deep understanding that those that did this were insane individuals and not "muslims". As it is, we go into Afghanistan and we are told what the Taliban are like, and that they are Muslim. We get a very distorted view of what the "average" Muslim is about as we have no relevant context to compare it to.

Certainly, an all Muslim school in my community might draw misdirected and ignorant rage because no one really knows them. Integrate, don't separate.

[hobbes]

i think you're mixing france and england up



hobbes what are you talking about? they aren't converting a school to be religious, they're starting it from the ground up. now if they were converting it i would have a problem.

You are missing the point. I was giving an abstract example to make a point.

Sikh school, Catholic school, Luthern school, Monk School, Creationism school, Star Trek school.......

Where does it stop?

[bigboab]

I think the answer is already in place in the UK. No National curriculum, no funding.

[vidcc]

Hobbes
British school are not funded in the same way as US schools
The point was building a new school to cater for the needs or wishes, not convert or upgrade and existing school. In the UK ALL SCHOOLS must teach the state applied national curriculum unless it is a Sunday school or after school establishment.. It is law that all children are taught this national curriculum and a parent can go to prison for failing to ensure their child adheres to this law....this doesn't mean they have to pass the exams, just have to be taught.
Private schools receive state grants purely to meet the states requirements, not to teach specific religious theory and they are controlled by the state and inspected to make sure they meet the set standards.
there is no mandate to have a school for specific religious theory teaching in every area, however as I suspect was the case in the thread topic there was a need in that area and a business plan would have been submitted and considered on its merits.
Just as the state provides grants for sports they do for education

To summarise...the state does not fund specific religious teaching but does supply grants to various "causes" if an acceptable case is made.

[Biggles]

The Catholic School I have had experience of have had non-Catholic pupils. I am not aware if said Sikh school will be open to non-believers. I would like to think so like, whether or not any non-Sikh wishes to attend is another matter.

I have no problem with this, as the man said they are entitled to a state education anyway. If there is a sufficient interest in the school to justify the cost then no problem.

My understanding of Sikhs is that they are quite tolerant (their religion is a Vulcan mind meld of Hindu and Muslim beliefs as I understand it).

I think the way we fund schools is different to the US. There are already Catholic and CofE schools. To qualify for funding they must include the National Curriculum and are subject to inspection. Note is also taken of their performance. Funding can be withdrawn if they do not meet their obligations and I believe this has happened to a couple of small Islamic schools.