I Think...

[clocker]

...We're hopelessly fucked.

Because of political pressures, neither candidate can afford to say what is really going to happen...the next President is not going to be able to lower taxes and get ANY of their grand plans implemented due to the scorched earth policy of the Bush administration.
Between the Iraq war, New Orleans and now, Galveston and the bailout of Wall Street, where is the money supposed to come from?

Jesus, this is depressing.

[Barbarossa]

Maybe you should sell Alaska back to the Russians?

[clocker]

Pretty sure we cant- I think the Chinese hold the mortgage.

[devilsadvocate]

I'm not happy about this bailout at all. I certainly don't think one cent should go to any company that is paying bonuses or until CEO termination packages are removed.

[clocker]

Op-Ed Contributor
The Power of Negative Thinking



By BARBARA EHRENREICH
Published: September 23, 2008

GREED — and its crafty sibling, speculation — are the designated culprits for the financial crisis. But another, much admired, habit of mind should get its share of the blame: the delusional optimism of mainstream, all-American, positive thinking.

As promoted by Oprah Winfrey, scores of megachurch pastors and an endless flow of self-help best sellers, the idea is to firmly believe that you will get what you want, not only because it will make you feel better to do so, but because “visualizing” something — ardently and with concentration — actually makes it happen. You will be able to pay that adjustable-rate mortgage or, at the other end of the transaction, turn thousands of bad mortgages into giga-profits if only you believe that you can.

Positive thinking is endemic to American culture — from weight loss programs to cancer support groups — and in the last two decades it has put down deep roots in the corporate world as well. Everyone knows that you won’t get a job paying more than $15 an hour unless you’re a “positive person,” and no one becomes a chief executive by issuing warnings of possible disaster.

The tomes in airport bookstores’ business sections warn against “negativity” and advise the reader to be at all times upbeat, optimistic, brimming with confidence. It’s a message companies relentlessly reinforced — treating their white-collar employees to manic motivational speakers and revival-like motivational events, while sending the top guys off to exotic locales to get pumped by the likes of Tony Robbins and other success gurus. Those who failed to get with the program would be subjected to personal “coaching” or shown the door.

The once-sober finance industry was not immune. On their Web sites, motivational speakers proudly list companies like Lehman Brothers and Merrill Lynch among their clients. What’s more, for those at the very top of the corporate hierarchy, all this positive thinking must not have seemed delusional at all. With the rise in executive compensation, bosses could have almost anything they wanted, just by expressing the desire. No one was psychologically prepared for hard times when they hit, because, according to the tenets of positive thinking, even to think of trouble is to bring it on.

Americans did not start out as deluded optimists. The original ethos, at least of white Protestant settlers and their descendants, was a grim Calvinism that offered wealth only through hard work and savings, and even then made no promises at all. You might work hard and still fail; you certainly wouldn’t get anywhere by adjusting your attitude or dreamily “visualizing” success.

Calvinists thought “negatively,” as we would say today, carrying a weight of guilt and foreboding that sometimes broke their spirits. It was in response to this harsh attitude that positive thinking arose — among mystics, lay healers and transcendentalists — in the 19th century, with its crowd-pleasing message that God, or the universe, is really on your side, that you can actually have whatever you want, if the wanting is focused enough.

When it comes to how we think, “negative” is not the only alternative to “positive.” As the case histories of depressives show, consistent pessimism can be just as baseless and deluded as its opposite. The alternative to both is realism — seeing the risks, having the courage to bear bad news and being prepared for famine as well as plenty. We ought to give it a try.

Barbara Ehrenreich is the author, most recently, of “This Land Is Their Land: Reports From a Divided Nation.”
:yup:

[IdolEyes787]

I'm not happy about this bailout at all. I certainly don't think one cent should go to any company that is paying bonuses or until CEO termination packages are removed.

Unfortunately Bush is putting his foot down on that point.Got to make sure the idiots who caused the problem are well looked after.

[clocker]

Got to make sure the idiots who caused the problem are well looked after.
This doesn't even address the fact that we're expecting the same idiots who caused the problem to solve it.

Actually, let me amend that...they are "hucksters" and we're the idiots.

[Skiz]

Seems truer every day. Sad...

I think if they are going to be bailed out that those in charge of these businesses should be leveled with impressive punishments.

No more huge golden parachute. That has to be re-earned. They should have to operate as a non profit until the debt is repaid. Failure and or deviation from set plans like quitting or transferring jobs is punishable by jail, not a fine. That should shake up these "hucksters". I know many don't like the idea of regulation and feel it is a slippery slope to socialism but look what these guys are doing on their own without any one to report to. If our country's economy is hung on this type of business, then yes, we are fucked.

I'm all for fewer laws in our world, but they must be more responsible and it does not seem to be happening on their own. Our currency is not going to be worth anything if we just keep printing more up every year to fix mistakes and poor judgment.

[clocker]

I have two major problems with this bailout.

The first is the extreme urgency- Bush is insisting on end of week to resolve the legislation.
The same players who set up this morass suddenly know exactly how to fix it and will do so in five days?

Secondly, what guarantees do we have that this $700 billion will actually solve the problem?
Wall St., despite all the theories and formulae that it dresses in, is basically run on "feelings"- it operates more on intuition than Oprah does.
A company can issue a profitable quarterly report and watch it's stock price fall because some analyst "thinks" it should have done better. Gas prices jump if people "think" a storm might disrupt supply...don't wait to see what actually happens- panic now!

So what happens if we absorb all the idiotic debt and Wall St. doesn't "feel good" about it or "think" we did enough?
I don't pretend to be any sort of financial savant- unlike the talking heads who just a few months ago were saying that everything was fine- but the undue haste and nebulous certainty of success seem troubling to me.

[devilsadvocate]

Seeing as Mcmermaid man http://sharetv.org/images/spongebob_squarepants/mermaidman-ernestborgnine-char.jpg is back in Washington saving the country and doesn't want to debate an excellent opportunity has arisen.


Bob Barr has finally sensed his opening. With Senator McCain calling for Friday's debate to be postponed, the former Georgia congressman and Libertarian Party nominee says he is eager to fill in as a replacement.
"Given Senator McCain's political stunt to avoid the debate, I ask that Friday's debate moves forward without him, as I am more than willing to step in to participate," Mr. Barr said in a statement this morning.
Mr. Barr, who is polling in the low single digits, was excluded from the three presidential debates and had been planning to host a separate, simultaneous event Friday night in which he responded to the candidates and the questions in real time.

[Skiz]

Seeing as Mcmermaid man http://sharetv.org/images/spongebob_squarepants/mermaidman-ernestborgnine-char.jpg is back in Washington saving the country and doesn't want to debate an excellent opportunity has arisen.

Doesn't want to debate? Even the Dems aren't saying that.

McCain all through this election has wanted more debates. Partisan feelings aside, the issue with the economy is far more important a matter than campaigning.

We're going to have a new President in a few weeks no matter what happens. It'd be nice to know that our dollar is worth more than the Peso when it happens.

[devilsadvocate]

Doesn't want to debate? Even the Dems aren't saying that.

Perhaps the dems aren't saying it, I on the other hand, am


McCain all through this election has wanted more debates. Partisan feelings aside, the issue with the economy is far more important a matter than campaigning. Yeah his campaign stopped :noes:
As for more debates, if you mean wanting the town hall things that was nothing more than attempted political one upmanship. They might as well have said " why don't you just follow how I say we should do things and stop being such an uppity boy".


We're going to have a new President in a few weeks no matter what happens. It'd be nice to know that our dollar is worth more than the Peso when it happens.

And just what do you think McCain or Obama would do about it? Where was McCain this last week when congress was working on it? If he had gone back last week It would have been credible, but at this stage.:noes:

Also why make a big hoha about it, why not just go back and do the job he's actually getting payed for without all the dramatics?


Let's just watch him and his supporters claim credit for the plan that appears to have been struck even though it happened without his help.

[Skiz]

Never mind. It's obvious you've got your mind made up. :dry:

[devilsadvocate]

Never mind. It's obvious you've got your mind made up. :dry:

And you don't?

[Skiz]

In this context? No.

[devilsadvocate]

what context would that be then?

[clocker]

@Skizo...
Seeing as how McCain is the most absent Senator- missing 64% of votes since Jan.2007, which amazingly is even MORE than Tim Johnson, the guy who had a brain hemorrhage- his decision that NOW it's suddenly important to get to work is pretty untenable.

Besides, he's always crowed about his status as a deregulator and admitted that the economy isn't his strong suit, so what does he plan on doing?

This temporary "suspension" is nothing more than a naked political manuever, an attempt to seize control of the moment and define it to his agenda, not any heartfelt concern for the American public and what is inevitably about to befall them.

[Skiz]

He's been campaigning since then. :blink:

[clocker]

He never stopped.
Ads ran, fundraising continued...all during the time that McCain said he had "suspended" his campaign.

Even better, Palin "suspended" her campaigning as well- despite having absolutely NO role to play in a Congressional solution. The Republicans also want to indefinitely postpone the VP debates, because of this crisis, theoretically, which of course has nothing to do with their fear that she'll be exposed as the lightweight she is.

Fer crissakes, she's STILL insisting that living in Alaska gives her substantive foreign policy experience.

[Skiz]

He never stopped.
Ads ran, fundraising continued...all during the time that McCain said he had "suspended" his campaign.

Even better, Palin "suspended" her campaigning as well- despite having absolutely NO role to play in a Congressional solution. The Republicans also want to indefinitely postpone the VP debates, because of this crisis, theoretically, which of course has nothing to do with their fear that she'll be exposed as the lightweight she is.

I thought it was obvious but maybe not.

I was responding to this comment:


Seeing as how McCain is the most absent Senator- missing 64% of votes since Jan.2007, which amazingly is even MORE than Tim Johnson, the guy who had a brain hemorrhage- his decision that NOW it's suddenly important to get to work is pretty untenable.

[clocker]

I thought it was obvious but maybe not.

I was responding to this comment:


Seeing as how McCain is the most absent Senator- missing 64% of votes since Jan.2007, which amazingly is even MORE than Tim Johnson, the guy who had a brain hemorrhage- his decision that NOW it's suddenly important to get to work is pretty untenable.
Both Obama and HRC were also campaigning during this period and have significantly better attendance records than McCain.
Point is moot however...I think it's criminal that any of 'em collect the salary/benefits of the Senate job while on the campaign trail.

Anyways, doesn't look like McCain's strategy is working too well...a revolt by the Repubs in the House seems to have derailed his attempt to appear in control of his own party.

[devilsadvocate]

Anyways, doesn't look like McCain's strategy is working too well...a revolt by the Repubs in the House seems to have derailed his attempt to appear in control of his own party.

I don't think that's as important to his campaign as how they manage to spin it.

I had little faith in a palatable or effective solution being reached before, now I have no faith. It has turned into a partisan grandstanding mission.

[Busyman]

Seeing as Mcmermaid man http://sharetv.org/images/spongebob_squarepants/mermaidman-ernestborgnine-char.jpg is back in Washington saving the country and doesn't want to debate an excellent opportunity has arisen.

Doesn't want to debate? Even the Dems aren't saying that.

McCain all through this election has wanted more debates. Partisan feelings aside, the issue with the economy is far more important a matter than campaigning.

We're going to have a new President in a few weeks no matter what happens. It'd be nice to know that our dollar is worth more than the Peso when it happens.

Dude, I can't believe you said that.

McCain slipped in the Faux polls and that was a political stunt.

[clocker]

Fox News thinks his first campaign suspension was such a success that they wonder if he shouldn't try it AGAIN! (http://www.thenation.com/blogs/campaignmatters/?pid=366390)
Those people are even stupider than I thought.

[Busyman]

Fox News thinks his first campaign suspension was such a success that they wonder if he shouldn't try it AGAIN! (http://www.thenation.com/blogs/campaignmatters/?pid=366390)
Those people are even stupider than I thought.

It was funny to see how every news station thought the "suspension" was ill advised but then here comes Faux News sucking on neocon ballz saying it was just the greatest move ever.

I wonder what they said when it really wasn't suspended.

I swear that it's like McCain's whole campaign is based on the hope that people are stupid.

[clocker]

I swear that it's like McCain's whole campaign is based on the hope that people are stupid.
There's no "hope" involved, just cold political calculation.
The same thinking that not only decided that Bush Jr. was a viable candidate but then ran him again and won.

The same calculation that today causes McCain to endlessly bring up his POW status, secure in the knowledge that no one will stand up and say, "Excuse me sir, but WTF does that have to do with anything?"

The same calculation that defends Palin gabble like this-"As Putin rears his head and comes into the air space of the United States of America, where– where do they go? It’s Alaska. It's just right over the border."- against the "liberal media elite", knowing full well the proper response should be, "Excuse me, are you retarded?".

In short, the GOP doesn't have to hope the electorate is stupid, they know it.

[Skiz]

I swear that it's like McCain's whole campaign is based on the hope that people are stupid.

That made :glag:. Really, it did.

That is, considering "Hope" is the mantra of (I presume) your candidate. :lol:

[Busyman]

I swear that it's like McCain's whole campaign is based on the hope that people are stupid.

That made :glag:. Really, it did.

That is, considering "Hope" is the mantra of (I presume) your candidate. :lol:

No I'm being serious, man. Time and time again I'll see shit like, "Hey so how many houses do you have?"

McCain - "Well, when I was a POW, I didn't have a house...."

WTF!?

Or the selection of Palin, which, for the stupid, is an excellent choice. She couldn't run for President on her own....not by a longshot....but hell....Dan Quayle was a VP pick too.

Or John McCain suspending his campaign....but not really suspending it and claiming victory for a bailout bill that he had shit to do with crafting but instead, went apeshit.

To be fair, I'm not to keen on Biden either. His gaffes are fucking irritating.

If Obama had picked Hilary, this election would have been a lock (although I don't like her either).