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hobbes
A sensible reply, thanks for that.
So do you feel that the USA / UK acted in breach of the Geneva convention ? Did they deliberately chose targets as outlined in article 54 (as quoted by your good self) ? Did they do it for the specific purposes as outlined in said article ?
I take it that we are accepting breach of something prohibited by said convention as being de facto illegal.
Love the sig BTW.
Rat claims that we did and will give links tomorrow. He made some sort of comment about "kids" and being short on time today. I can only assume he meant that he is in the act of giving birth at the moment.Quote:
Originally posted by J'Pol@14 December 2003 - 01:38
hobbes
A sensible reply, thanks for that.
So do you feel that the USA / UK acted in breach of the Geneva convention ? Did they deliberately chose targets as outlined in article 54 (as quoted by your good self) ? Did they do it for the specific purposes as outlined in said article ?
I take it that we are accepting breach of something prohibited by said convention as being de facto illegal.
Love the sig BTW.
As to the sig., I find it strange that I understood the meaning of that phrase the first time I heard it, although I had no clue to it's literal translation.
As an appendix to Hobbes's definition of the phrase "Beyond The Pale"...
I always took the expression to deliniate the archaic geographical boundries separating British Rule from the rest of Ireland.
"The Pale" was generally within Dublin and her suburbs but expanded and contracted with varying brutality.
Pale, in Irish history, that district of indefinite and varying limits around Dublin, in which English law prevailed. The term was first used in the 14th cent. to designate what had previously been called English land. Outlying districts were styled the marches, or border lands. In the time of Henry VIII the Pale extended N from Dublin to Dundalk and c.20 mi (32 km) inland from the coast. It disappeared in the ensuing years as the English control of the whole of Ireland was made effective. There was another English Pale in France, comprising Calais and the surrounding area, until 1558. In Russia the Pale designated those regions in which Jews were allowed to live. The Jewish Pale was established in 1792, when it comprised the areas annexed from Poland in the first partition. The area was extended (partly as a result of further annexations), but even within the Pale the Jewish population was subjected to many restrictions. Most of these were in force until the Russian Revolution of 1917.
Source: Allrefer.com
You are correct Chalice, but I was up against signature rules.
My sig contains the barest of essentials, as it is 480 characters out of a maximum of 500.
I could have linked the source, but I am keeping it myself so that I can post other things from it which make me appear learned.
Uh-oh. :oQuote:
Originally posted by hobbes@13 December 2003 - 21:56
.....the source, but I am keeping it myself so that I can post other things from it which make me appear learned.
(I though I was the only one to do that.)
Uh-oh. :oQuote:
Originally posted by j2k4+14 December 2003 - 02:01--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (j2k4 @ 14 December 2003 - 02:01)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-hobbes@13 December 2003 - 21:56
.....the source, but I am keeping it myself so that I can post other things from it which make me appear learned.
(I though I was the only one to do that.) [/b][/quote]
And some appearances can be deceiving :lol: :lol: :lol:Quote:
I can still tell who's
-the little boy using their moms computer
-the college student who thinks he's smarter than everyone else
-the introverted geek that has this forum as his ONLY outlet
-the fat guy that masturbates whenever he gets the chance and typed his responses with sticky fingers
-the philosophical intellectual that doesn't necessarily think he's smarter than everyone but loves to use big or seldom used words (to SEEM smarter) and will be quick to point out grammatical and spelling errrors.
With your unique ability to make such revelations do you practice catoptromancy, at all?
By the way, you misspelled "errror", old bean. Quite ironic and all that! Is there perchance another reason that it is misspelled, perhaps the key is a bit, umm, sticky, no?
Why, at all, would you think I'm a Greek?
Are you quoting yourself, somehow attempting to refer to yourself in the third person. How droll.
Let me leave you with a favorite quote of mine:
"A word to the thick soul sistas
I wanna get with ya
I won't cus or hit ya
But I gotta be straight when I say I wanna uh, uh
Til the break of dawn"
Relevant Link
Uh oh, Mom's coming, gotta hide the tissue and lotion. :lol: :lol: :lol:
heh u meant ur wife? right?
:lol:
Yeah, exactly, must have been a typo or something.Quote:
Originally posted by james_bond_rulez@14 December 2003 - 05:31
heh u meant ur wife? right?
:lol:
Thanks JimmyB!
a typo.... lolz
;)
Deceptive, one would have thought.Quote:
Originally posted by Busyman@14 December 2003 - 03:52
And some appearances can be deceiving :lol: :lol: :lol:
1. No I'm scared of mirrors. I saw myself once and I look horrible.Quote:
Originally posted by hobbes@14 December 2003 - 03:49
With your unique ability to make such revelations do you practice catoptromancy, at all?
By the way, you misspelled "errror", old bean. Quite ironic and all that! Is there perchance another reason that it is misspelled, perhaps the key is a bit, umm, sticky, no?
Why, at all, would you think I'm a Greek?
Are you quoting yourself, somehow attempting to refer to yourself in the third person. How droll.
Let me leave you with a favorite quote of mine:
"A word to the thick soul sistas
I wanna get with ya
I won't cus or hit ya
But I gotta be straight when I say I wanna uh, uh
Til the break of dawn"
Relevant Link
Uh oh, Mom's coming, gotta hide the tissue and lotion. :lol: :lol: :lol:
2. The errror was there for someone to notice the errror. I see YOU noticed. And PERHAPS another reason that it is misspelled.......HEYYY!! HaHa very funny but I am not fat!!! :lol: :lol:
3. You don't have to be Greek to investigate epistemology or basic assumptions. <_<
4. Busyman thinks Busyman refered to a quote from Busyman because it seemed droll and Busyman likes to be different and laugh sometimes in this staid universe of ours.
5. Yea but those big booties aren't enough to entertain an intellectual brain
or unlike a stain they won't remain.
6. Don't despond. Just put the tissue up to your nose like you normally do. She'll think you're blowing your nose :o . ..........Awwwww I'm just kidding. Your mom knows what your doing but it's ok; your getting older and your hormones are raging......... :huh:
Did I start something, hobbes?
Or did you? :lol:
Busyman:
I am none of those.
I'm just an old eagle who doesn't get to fly much anymore.
The last person I ever impress is myself, and that hasn't happened since around, oh.....let's see..... :huh:
Nobody started anything, just good ribbing all around.
Excellent! ;)
I hope to have time soon to respond more comprehensively to the other posts (I've got a project to finish), but I have to take a moment to respond to my southern colleague, MediaSlayer:Quote:
Originally posted by j2k4+13 December 2003 - 21:17--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (j2k4 @ 13 December 2003 - 21:17)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-MediaSlayer@13 December 2003 - 08:25
j2k4 did you HAVE to use a quote from senator byrd to further your republican pool party? c'mon, you don't wanna get ruffed up do ya? i heard ole' clocker invested in some brass knuckles, :boxing: MODS i smell a fight! hehe
but seriously, leave byrd alone, he ain't half bad. here is a speech from march of this year by him called "arrogance of power" it's good stuff, and it's sad to see an old man care so much for his country, the country he grew up with, just crumble before his eyes.
The Hon. Robert C. Byrd is a pompous, self-serving poseur of the first order.
He attempts to portray himself as a self-styled "House Historian", and then uses this "credential" in a vain effort to batter others.
He is vanity on parade; literally the only representative extant who can use the expletive "nigger" in the media and not be sent home for his sin.
He is the All-Time Champion of pork-barrel politics, as can be seen any time one enters the state of West Byr....I mean, West Virginia, a state where every speck of dirt is named in his honor.
The man is a joke.
Edit: I will refrain from mentioning his historical connection to the Ku Klux Klan, as to do so would be harping on his past unnecessarily. [/b][/quote]
omg, i think i'm having a strom thurman moment right now, ooohhhh i'm gonna be sick...... :x :x :x :x :x
back to topic, j2k, the only argument that you presented about byrd that peaked my interest enough to provoke a reply is the one about his racism. southern people hold different values, that perhaps you are unaware of. they are sentimental, they don't believe in selling out, they are loyal. loyalty to them sometimes means keeping those racist values from times long ago, because they saw the racism as a strength, not as a weakness. they saw it as a way to protect their culture, to keep those good southern values, to keep the tradition. i don't condone anyone's racist beliefs, but it is possible to respect someone and admire someone for their integrity, even if they are racist. i appreciate his opinions on the war, what does that have to do with racism? not too much, i think. because this topic was about weapons of mass destruction. so in closing, i disagree, with you on this. i like his views on the war, why it was wrong, so i don't discredit him in the same way as you do.
I'm with you 100%, MediaSlayer.Quote:
Originally posted by MediaSlayer@15 December 2003 - 02:30
southern people hold different values, that perhaps you are unaware of. they are sentimental, they don't believe in selling out, they are loyal. loyalty to them sometimes means keeping those racist values from times long ago, because they saw the racism as a strength, not as a weakness. they saw it as a way to protect their culture, to keep those good southern values, to keep the tradition. i don't condone anyone's racist beliefs, but it is possible to respect someone and admire someone for their integrity, even if they are racist. i appreciate his opinions on the war, what does that have to do with racism? not too much, i think. because this topic was about weapons of mass destruction. so in closing, i disagree, with you on this. i like his views on the war, why it was wrong, so i don't discredit him in the same way as you do.
I've spent lots of time down your way; I have a middling familiarity with southern "issues", including the flag, etc., and I have complete and utter respect for all the southern-held qualities you cite.
I will not, however, give the Hon. Robert C. Byrd credit for possessing any of them.
He is, as I said before, a pompous ass, and the all-time champ at suckling the government tit.
The largest ego in government today.
omg, i think i'm having a strom thurman moment right now, ooohhhh i'm gonna be sick...... :x :x :x :x :xQuote:
Originally posted by MediaSlayer+15 December 2003 - 06:30--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (MediaSlayer @ 15 December 2003 - 06:30)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Quote:
Originally posted by j2k4@13 December 2003 - 21:17
<!--QuoteBegin-MediaSlayer
Quote:
@13 December 2003 - 08:25
j2k4 did you HAVE to use a quote from senator byrd to further your republican pool party? c'mon, you don't wanna get ruffed up do ya? i heard ole' clocker invested in some brass knuckles, :boxing: MODS i smell a fight! hehe
but seriously, leave byrd alone, he ain't half bad. here is a speech from march of this year by him called "arrogance of power" it's good stuff, and it's sad to see an old man care so much for his country, the country he grew up with, just crumble before his eyes.
I hope to have time soon to respond more comprehensively to the other posts (I've got a project to finish), but I have to take a moment to respond to my southern colleague, MediaSlayer:
The Hon. Robert C. Byrd is a pompous, self-serving poseur of the first order.
He attempts to portray himself as a self-styled "House Historian", and then uses this "credential" in a vain effort to batter others.
He is vanity on parade; literally the only representative extant who can use the expletive "nigger" in the media and not be sent home for his sin.
He is the All-Time Champion of pork-barrel politics, as can be seen any time one enters the state of West Byr....I mean, West Virginia, a state where every speck of dirt is named in his honor.
The man is a joke.
Edit: I will refrain from mentioning his historical connection to the Ku Klux Klan, as to do so would be harping on his past unnecessarily.
back to topic, j2k, the only argument that you presented about byrd that peaked my interest enough to provoke a reply is the one about his racism. southern people hold different values, that perhaps you are unaware of. they are sentimental, they don't believe in selling out, they are loyal. loyalty to them sometimes means keeping those racist values from times long ago, because they saw the racism as a strength, not as a weakness. they saw it as a way to protect their culture, to keep those good southern values, to keep the tradition. i don't condone anyone's racist beliefs, but it is possible to respect someone and admire someone for their integrity, even if they are racist. i appreciate his opinions on the war, what does that have to do with racism? not too much, i think. because this topic was about weapons of mass destruction. so in closing, i disagree, with you on this. i like his views on the war, why it was wrong, so i don't discredit him in the same way as you do. [/b][/quote]
If that be case Media, one could "admire" Hitler for his ability to rally people and forget the racism because he was only trying to protect this so called tradition and culture.
In most cases it easier to unite when uniting AGAINST something.
Race is one of the most widely used.
if you re-read what i wrote, i said "admire someone for their integrity, even if they are racist" NOT "admire someone for their integrity, and for their ability to rally people, BECAUSE the are racist" or "admire someone for their integrity, and for their ability to rally people, while forgetting or forgiving their racism"
To try to separate a persons racist beliefs from their integrity is nonsensical.Quote:
Originally posted by MediaSlayer@23 December 2003 - 05:06
if you re-read what i wrote, i said "admire someone for their integrity, even if they are racist" NOT "admire someone for their integrity, and for their ability to rally people, BECAUSE the are racist" or "admire someone for their integrity, and for their ability to rally people, while forgetting or forgiving their racism"
Try this one:
I admire Hitler's integrity....but he was racist.
Hmm, Hitler. Well he was very popular ("Seig Hail!"), efficient (12,000,000 dead in concentration camps, better than anyone else to date), diplomatic ("I vill invade whoever I vant!") improved infastructure ("More Autobahns, more dams, more electricty!") funded many scientific breakthroughs, ("It is call a jet engine mein fuher. It is really fast."), and boosted industry ("Das Volkswagen is cute!")
His achievements are very impressive, however the fact that he brought the entire world to war and murdered millions of people detract from those achievemnts and his integrity somewhat.
But to say I actually admire him in ANY fashion is again absurd.Quote:
Originally posted by Alex H@23 December 2003 - 05:50
Hmm, Hitler. Well he was very popular ("Seig Hail!"), efficient (12,000,000 dead in concentration camps, better than anyone else to date), diplomatic ("I vill invade whoever I vant!") improved infastructure ("More Autobahns, more dams, more electricty!") funded many scientific breakthroughs, ("It is call a jet engine mein fuher. It is really fast."), and boosted industry ("Das Volkswagen is cute!")
His achievements are very impressive, however the fact that he brought the entire world to war and murdered millions of people detract from those achievemnts and his integrity somewhat.
Furthermore, I am not "impressed" by 12 million people dead.
Many of what are known as Hitler's "achievements" came about as expedients to his desire to put Germany on a war-footing.Quote:
Originally posted by Alex H@23 December 2003 - 01:50
His achievements are very impressive, however the fact that he brought the entire world to war and murdered millions of people detract from those achievemnts and his integrity somewhat.
Whether even the idea for such as the Volkswagon originated with him is subject to much debate.
When the bully pulpit is occupied by a bully, these things happen; however, I think in the case of Mr. Hitler that it would be preferable, especially from a historical standpoint, to attribute the advances of his Reich to the individuals who were responsible for their development; for example, Von Braun and his rockets.
Alex-
Your use of the word "somewhat" would seem to indicate you don't feel it necessary to put too fine a point on this; your attribution of "integrity" to Hitler is, to put it mildly, a bit baffling/confusing/laughable, or some other word which momentarily escapes me.
Of course, President Bush is constantly compared (in certain quarters) to Hitler, so I guess I should forego any expressions of surprise.
"Somewhat" was an attempt to outline the seriousness of his actions by understating them to the point whereapon they become ridiculous.Quote:
Originally posted by j2k4@23 December 2003 - 07:30
Alex-
Your use of the word "somewhat" would seem to indicate you don't feel it necessary to put too fine a point on this; your attribution of "integrity" to Hitler is, to put it mildly, a bit baffling/confusing/laughable, or some other word which momentarily escapes me.
Of course, President Bush is constantly compared (in certain quarters) to Hitler, so I guess I should forego any expressions of surprise.
I don't have any type of affection for the man, however it must be said that his "achievments" were many and great. If they were not great (in the monumental sense of the word) then they would therefor be insignificant. I'm sure we all agree that Hitler had a very large and lasting effect on he world, so we must also recognize his legacy.
In summary: He did a lot of stuff.
To be sure.Quote:
Originally posted by Alex H@23 December 2003 - 05:02
In summary: He did a lot of stuff.
Pol Pot "did a lot of stuff", too
And, I guess, the same could be said of Bush, as long as you are not too picky.
Perhaps if he pushed for development of a small, fuel-efficient, utilitarian vehicle or something-
Nah. Never happen.
Hey, this "summarizing" is pretty handy; it makes history so much easier to ignore!
;)
oh really? says who?Quote:
Originally posted by Busyman@23 December 2003 - 05:23
To try to separate a persons racist beliefs from their integrity is nonsensical.
confuse yourself, but don't confuse others.Quote:
Try this one:
I admire Hitler's integrity....but he was racist.
here it is, because you asked me to "try this one":
A person is made up of many facets. So when you speak of the integrity of a person, you are speaking of a complicated thing, because a person's makeup is not "he can play football very well" or "she cares for the needy" or "he is a racist". It is possible, although unusual, to be a murderer that also has lots of compassion for starving children. Is it not? Yes, it's an extreme example, but it's possible, especially when you consider people have the ability to change. That murder might have seen the error of his ways, and started donating money to needy children. Now as for Hitler, it's so simple, it evaded you. He did very few good things, but his overall character was not very good, so without the racism, he was mostly a shitty person. Not much integrity. Now when you add the racism, it makes his integrity even lower. So instead of what you said, I would say "I don't admire Hitler very much, and he was also racist". So a person has to be a damn good person overall, to be able to be considered as having alot of integrity, even though they are racist. I think byrd is like that, and that's why i was arguing with j2k about it.
but what does this have to do with wmd?
not a damn thing, but i'll keep this up, just for you if you need it that bad.
oh really? says who?Quote:
Originally posted by MediaSlayer+23 December 2003 - 17:46--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (MediaSlayer @ 23 December 2003 - 17:46)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Busyman@23 December 2003 - 05:23
To try to separate a persons racist beliefs from their integrity is nonsensical.
confuse yourself, but don't confuse others.Quote:
Try this one:
I admire Hitler's integrity....but he was racist.
here it is, because you asked me to "try this one":
A person is made up of many facets. So when you speak of the integrity of a person, you are speaking of a complicated thing, because a person's makeup is not "he can play football very well" or "she cares for the needy" or "he is a racist". It is possible, although unusual, to be a murderer that also has lots of compassion for starving children. Is it not? Yes, it's an extreme example, but it's possible, especially when you consider people have the ability to change. That murder might have seen the error of his ways, and started donating money to needy children. Now as for Hitler, it's so simple, it evaded you. He did very few good things, but his overall character was not very good, so without the racism, he was mostly a shitty person. Not much integrity. Now when you add the racism, it makes his integrity even lower. So instead of what you said, I would say "I don't admire Hitler very much, and he was also racist". So a person has to be a damn good person overall, to be able to be considered as having alot of integrity, even though they are racist. I think byrd is like that, and that's why i was arguing with j2k about it.
but what does this have to do with wmd?
not a damn thing, but i'll keep this up, just for you if you need it that bad. [/b][/quote]
OkOkOk
You admire Byrd....and he is racist. I understand now.
As for the WMD topic....
I'm am mostly for Democrat, j2 is for Republican
j2 quoted Byrd, among others
And YOU admired Byrd sooo much that you were offended by the mere quoting of him. It's a quote. j2 was quoting Democrats. Byrd's a Democrat. OK?
That's where this started my man ;)
yep, that is where it started. i didn't like the idea of him using on of my "own"(democrats) as fuel for his republican fire, and the fact that it was that democrat made it all the worse.
Yea well I'm mostly Democrat and he quoted Democrats including the racist one you admire and uh well........TOUGH, GET OVER IT!!! :lol:
"They're all gonna laugh at you!!!" :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Carrie
another sign of how narrow minded and sad RAM%ROD is.Quote:
Originally posted by RAM%ROD@24 December 2003 - 21:51
http://www.whitehouse.org/initiative...ges/porker.jpg
his posts make no sense with the thread in which he is posting in at all.
get a life you sad loser :angry: