Big deal. And torrent trackers get taken offline pretty often. Just because either file sharing method(or any others) get heat brought down on them doesn't mean they're going to suddenly disappear.
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Happening often, being annoying, making a mockery out of the $30something bucks spent on it each month. Something like that.
I'm aware that other providers like Astraweb are not affected by this, at least not to this degree. But still, the fact remains that just like bittorrent trackers before them, usenet is under some pressure from the authorities and media lobby groups, too.
When a torrent tracker goes down temporarily, it doesn't lose the content (at least not under normal circumstances), hence it can't be compared to DMCA takedowns, which make re-upping of the content necessary. They may not really stop usenet in the grand scheme of things, but as I've said, the so called 'safe haven' immune to authorities and lobby groups it is not anymore.
1. You are off the loop. You don't have to go far and check on this site how much it costs usenet access. I'll give you an hint, it's around 7,5€ per month.
2. DMCA takedowns often? Or do you mean extremely rarely? Besides, if you know how to use the usenet, those takedowns don't really remove any contents.
3. You're just giving an opinion based on hearsay. I suggest getting your facts straight before posting unsubstantiated opinions.
4. Even if the above mentioned were wrong, the 1000 days retention on maximum speeds clearly beats hands down ANY tracker. Give me one tracker that can max out a 40mbit connection on all 3+ year old files.
5. Contents. Check my previous quote from another similar discussion. Heck, just for the comparison of it, FST has gone live around 6 months ago with the V2 of the NZB section, and it already indexes more stuff than most of the trackers around. And we're very small compared to some major NZB sites, yet.
This is true shipwreck, lurn moar bout usenet, itll be to yo ben-a-fit.
A lot of what you're saying appears very disconnected and rumor driven from the point of view of an active usenet user, which is why it was obvious you weren't a usenet user. DMCA "takedowns" are usually assumed in those cases, but not confirmed, and it's based on how the post is affected (which is all I'll limit myself to say). I made the mistake the first month by paying $25/mo for Giganews when I was breaking myself into usenet, after I ran up my low tolerance for stupidity on private trackers so it was sort of rushed. However, any regular user should be at the receiving end of great service for just around $10/mo. Plus the fact that it's completely open, and not just the "scene" posts to it, it's a great medium for anyone to use (giver or taker).
ain't this became an identical to everlasting browser-war
usenet costs money. torrents does not. guess who won? end of the story.
lolQuote:
usenet costs money. torrents does not. guess who won? end of the story.
you won, mon ami.
A medal. Guess what medal? :D
Big load of J-DYE-style bull-crap ... nowadays if you want to be able to get everything you want on trackers, eventually you will have to get yourself a seedbox ... that costs money too.
You can also download from public trackers but than you risk getting letters from your ISP etc ...
I've been using both methods for some time now ... torrents for many years, usenet for a year or so (still managing to get my usenet-needs filled without any kind of payed subscription) and I have to say I really like the Usenet and even prefer it over torrents.
I've been using both to my utmost satisfaction, since I can get everything I need/want ...
First of all, it seems like you guys still missed the point, despite me explaining it in detail repeatedly. It was not about which protocol / way to get stuff was the 'better' one, that's highly subjective anyway, so discussing hours / days / weeks / months or even years about it is retarded indeed. It was about the claim that bittorrent was under pressure from the authorities, ISPs, anti-piracy organisations and other lobby groups, actually to the degree that there is a danger of it going extinct, while usenet is not. It was claimed that in foreseeable time, usenet would be the only alternative left, creating the illusion of 'immunity' of usenet to similar threats. And that, my friends, is an illusion indeed. Nothing more, nothing less.
Second, usenet is older than the WWW. I've used binary newsgroups before some of you were born. Have I used them in recent times? No. Have the fundamental principles of sharing binaries over usenet changed since then? No. So please, spare me the lectures, especially if it's not even relevant for the point I was trying to get across.
But to hell with it, let's keep this thread going ad nauseam.
I'm aware of that, actually mentioned $11/month Astraweb myself. But I was talking about Giganews in that specific post, the biggest and most expensive provider that is actually plagued by DMCA takedowns the most.
Again, depends on your provider.Quote:
2. DMCA takedowns often? Or do you mean extremely rarely? Besides, if you know how to use the usenet, those takedowns don't really remove any contents.
Hearsay? I'd like you to point out what the "unsubstantiated" part of my posts was.Quote:
3. You're just giving an opinion based on hearsay. I suggest getting your facts straight before posting unsubstantiated opinions.
Retention? See TL where I can max out my 100Mbit connection with 5 year old releases, just tested a few myself right now. Not to mention those dozens of specialised trackers that keep old and rare stuff on seedboxes for years. Besides, how relevant is this really in practice? How often do you actually need to download such old releases, especially if you have been around for years? Not to mention all the remasters, internals and whatnot that are being released all the time, depending on the content you're looking for. And there are always requests you can make.Quote:
4. Even if the above mentioned were wrong, the 1000 days retention on maximum speeds clearly beats hands down ANY tracker. Give me one tracker that can max out a 40mbit connection on all 3+ year old files.
Again, highly subjective, it all depends on the type of content you want (especially if you prefer tracker exclusive releases, you have no alternative to bittorrent).Quote:
5. Contents. Check my previous quote from another similar discussion. Heck, just for the comparison of it, FST has gone live around 6 months ago with the V2 of the NZB section, and it already indexes more stuff than most of the trackers around. And we're very small compared to some major NZB sites, yet.
hmm theres a lot to like about usenet, i use it occasionally for games cos its way better than 5Kbps on demonoid for stuff like daphne roms, as for replacing mv, what, etc I dont quite think so. Itd be nice to have everything in the one spot instead of joining a hundred different nzb or torrent sites, but moreover I think weve all got it pretty good and they're both about the same.
100% true ... no file-sharing method will last forever. BT has had some heat, but survived until now and is still going very strong.
Usenet isn't targetted yet like BT, because of the very nature of the newsgroups. They cannot 'shutdown' a newsgroup like they can shutdown a tracker, the only thing they can do (for now) is those DMCA takedowns but we all know it depends on what provider you're with and hasn't had that much impact.
But believe me ... if the usenet get's as popular and widespread as BT is now, the authorities will try to take other measures to prevent the Usenet from being a 'safe-heaven' for filesharing.
This is indeed a pointless discussion ... BT has it pro's and cons, and Usenet has it's own pro's and cons.
It's highly personal and depends indeed on a lot of personal preferences and situations to make a universal statement about wich 'method' suits you best.
Disme, let me say that you're a smart fella and understood exactly what I was aiming at. :)
Seriously, just use whatever suits you best. Let's just be glad that there are various alternatives available and that leeching stuff was probably never so easy as it is today, despite all the lobbying and fear mongering. May it long continue.
P.S.: I was ironic with the 'bittorrent > usenet' comment earlier on in this thread btw., thought it was pretty obvious.
But you didn't point out one of private BT's biggest flaws, you're subject to the whims of 1337 feeling tweens. And you left out the part about rimjobbing in your quest to find everything you're looking for in privatebt.
That's where you are wrong ... I can honestly say I've never had to rim anyones anus to get wherever I wanted. I applied in some GA's for the easily accessible trackers here at FST but never made any requests for the "'higher'-level"-trackers. I just got involved in the community that is FST because I liked it here (and still do) and I never spent much time on IRC, nor did I spend ages on tracker-forums. I just wasn't in a hurry to get anywhere so I never felt like I lacked something. Eventually invites started popping in my PM-boxes here and there (from people I didn't expect).
They based their decisions on the posts they read here and there and the opinion they formed based on that, not on any kind of asskissing. I believe there are a lot of people here at FST and other places that got in all the 'l33t' plces without actually striving to get there.
Never once had to. Simply asking for an invite, usually the tracker staff themselves, was always enough. Most of my trackers I joined through open signups even, which used to be a lot more common back in the days than they are now.
You can get involved in all the drama and ego tripping kids, but you don't have to. I never did. For some, it's even some kind of entertainment.
I remember when open signups were the rule. It seemed like it was only after the Elite Torrents Bust in 2005 that virtually all the other private tracker sites immediately ended open registration and started an "invite only" policy.
After the Oink bust I thought that they'd all think "what the hell" and re-open registrations (as it obviously offered little protection) but it seems to have become part of the exclusivist/elitist culture: the harder a place is to get in, the more desirable it becomes.
And I personally think that this 'elitist' culture, which was 'imported' from the traditional scene and wasn't characteristic for private torrent trackers at first indeed, is a negative development, in essence contradictory to the principle of file sharing. So if you want to criticise the current tracker world, that's a valid point IMHO.
However, there simply are so many good trackers out there these days that there are good or even excellent alternatives for all of the so called 'rare' trackers, provided that you're really only interested in the content and less about the 'status' of being member on a rare, exclusive site.
http://mrbadak.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/omg.gif
Teach me Master, TEACH ME please !
Forgive my ignorance, then, as I'm not even half as dedicated to UseNet as people here (and elsewhere) are. What are the other ways?
I know a lot of free providers, and free advertisement/endorsement type deals, but none at the "better" providers like astra/leaseweb. What are the links that I'm missing? :)
Patience, young padawan. The dark side is strong with you.
abhdtv+hdbits=massive amount of caps and blurays YAY!
I wasn't really talking about "leet" sites, I was talking about mindset of some of the people that staff the sites. I've got my own content covered, but I also tend to upload (other content and/or my encodes), and naturally I am more likely to cross paths with a staff member. If I see something redundant or illogical, I speak out, and in response to that you find out 1 of 2 things. (1) This staff member is an idiot that wants a rim job, or (2) the staff member is bright and enlightens me with an experienced perspective. I've mostly only run into the first type. So I've pretty much stuck to usenet for both ul/dl.
usenet - good for new stuff, fast, no ratio etc
torrents (and other protocols like emule) - good for old and rare non-scene releases (nsotalgia is a key reason for my filesharing and many over 30 I suspect), easier to request stuff, etc
Use the both of them for about $35 us/month (seedbox and usenet server) - think I would stop the seedbox first after the usual buffer strategy on trackers b4 stopping the usenet.
What I dislike most really about the usenet system - the retention in itself is good but the limit (900 days) is not if you want old releases that haven't been reposted - personally I couldn't find many DVDs from scene groups for that reason. But hey between the two of 'em they work fine for me!
To those who missed the news, there was a huge promotion last black friday, 4$ per month, unlimited access on one of the providers. That's less than the cost of a pack of cigarettes where I live at.