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And if you have, do you think the reasons it was banned were valid? Is the depiction of society in it an accurate one?
I haven't read it in years, unfortuantely, I'll have to dig out my copy before I can fully participate in any following conversation. ;)
:ninja:
well, as some of you might know, I've written a paper about that book this year.
And what exactly do you think the reason for the banning is?
There are two mainreasons given:
1. The 'abusive' language used in the book and the influence on society of that.
2. The negative criticism on the American society.
I don't think these reasons were valid reasons to ban this book. The point is that Salinger tried to describe the world of a teenager with a lot of personal problems, who tries it find its place in the world. People often say that the language used it 'crap'. Holden used words like 'asshole', 'bastard', 'kill', at random, yes, that is true. BUT, you cannot forget the context in which these words are used. There are only a few cases in the book where he really means it as an insult. Many people hold on to the fact that the word 'fuck' is used 4 times in the story. They never mention that it is never used by the maincharacter itself. In the story one can find the sentence 'Somebody had written fuck you on the wall'. Holden was apalled by that and tried to paint over the words because he couldn't stand the idea of his little sister seeing these kind of 'obscenitities'. According to me, it's just the language of a teenager trying to act cool and tough in a world he doesn't entirely understand.
Is that a reason to ban a book? NO
Is the depiction of the society of that book a good one? YES
The book criticizes some points of the American society (phony behaviour, alcholol abuse, violence), but none of them are made up, it is all quite realistic.
Ofcourse, it is a story. One may not forget that it is fiction after all.
Another third (less important) reason that is given to censor this book, is that fact that is ' a book of psychopats'. The killer of John Lennon used it as a guide through NY....Again, is that a reason to censor it? NO, ofcourse not. As RF mentioned to me a few days ago when we were discussing this matter: 'How many psychopats have read LOTR of The Discworld Novels?'
Censorship is not a rational thing. When considering the matter of censorship RATIONALLY, one must admit that obtaining knowledge, of what kind so ever, can't be negative and that it can only help society in advancing.
Conclusion: yes, the catcher is a good book, yes it's pretty realistic but it's still a story. It shouldn't be censored . If you want to read it, you should be able to do that without any problems. If u don't like it, don't read it then. It's not like a simple book is going to corrupt the mind of a teenager.
PS: In the list of 'most banned books in the '90 in the USA', The Catcher is still with the first 10.....weird huh, in a country that controls its media with a 'free-press model'.
peace ;)
Is "The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn" still on the top of that list?
:ninja:
Where can I find a copy of that banned books list??? And not the list of books that have been challenged in court for some public/school library shit. Sounds very intriguing!! Does anyone know what other books are on it/how long a list is it??? :o
Coincidently I was having a conversation at work about Catcher in the Rye last night. It has spurred me to read it again. Hopefully soon but I have a pile of books 2 feet high to get through first!! :lol:
The Top 100 Most Frequently Challenged Books of 1990-2000
1. Scary Stories (Series) by Alvin Schwartz
2. Daddy’s Roommate by Michael Willhoite
3. I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings by Maya Angelou
4. The Chocolate War by Robert Cormier
5. The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn by Mark Twain
6. Of Mice and Men by John Steinbeck
7. Harry Potter (Series) by J.K. Rowling
8. Forever by Judy Blume
9. Bridge to Terabithia by Katherine Paterson
10. Alice (Series) by Phyllis Reynolds Naylor
11. Heather Has Two Mommies by Leslea Newman
12. My Brother Sam is Dead by James Lincoln Collier and Christopher Collier
13. The Catcher in the Rye by J.D. Salinger
14. The Giver by Lois Lowry
15. It’s Perfectly Normal by Robie Harris
16. Goosebumps (Series) by R.L. Stine
17. A Day No Pigs Would Die by Robert Newton Peck
18. The Color Purple by Alice Walker
19. Sex by Madonna
20. Earth’s Children (Series) by Jean M. Auel
21. The Great Gilly Hopkins by Katherine Paterson
22. A Wrinkle in Time by Madeleine L’Engle
23. Go Ask Alice by Anonymous
24. Fallen Angels by Walter Dean Myers
25. In the Night Kitchen by Maurice Sendak
26. The Stupids (Series) by Harry Allard
27. The Witches by Roald Dahl
28. The New Joy of Gay Sex by Charles Silverstein
29. Anastasia Krupnik (Series) by Lois Lowry
30. The Goats by Brock Cole
31. Kaffir Boy by Mark Mathabane
32. Blubber by Judy Blume
33. Killing Mr. Griffin by Lois Duncan
34. Halloween ABC by Eve Merriam
35. We All Fall Down by Robert Cormier
36. Final Exit by Derek Humphry
37. The Handmaid’s Tale by Margaret Atwood
38. Julie of the Wolves by Jean Craighead George
39. The Bluest Eye by Toni Morrison
40. What’s Happening to my Body? Book for Girls: A Growing-Up Guide for Parents & Daughters by Lynda Madaras
41. To Kill a Mockingbird by Harper Lee
42. Beloved by Toni Morrison
43. The Outsiders by S.E. Hinton
44. The Pigman by Paul Zindel
45. Bumps in the Night by Harry Allard
46. Deenie by Judy Blume
47. Flowers for Algernon by Daniel Keyes
48. Annie on my Mind by Nancy Garden
49. The Boy Who Lost His Face by Louis Sachar
50. Cross Your Fingers, Spit in Your Hat by Alvin Schwartz
51. A Light in the Attic by Shel Silverstein
52. Brave New World by Aldous Huxley
53. Sleeping Beauty Trilogy by A.N. Roquelaure (Anne Rice)
54. Asking About Sex and Growing Up by Joanna Cole
55. Cujo by Stephen King
56. James and the Giant Peach by Roald Dahl
57. The Anarchist Cookbook by William Powell
58. Boys and Sex by Wardell Pomeroy
59. Ordinary People by Judith Guest
60. American Psycho by Bret Easton Ellis
61. What’s Happening to my Body? Book for Boys: A Growing-Up Guide for Parents & Sons by Lynda Madaras
62. Are You There, God? It’s Me, Margaret by Judy Blume
63. Crazy Lady by Jane Conly
64. Athletic Shorts by Chris Crutcher
65. Fade by Robert Cormier
66. Guess What? by Mem Fox
67. The House of Spirits by Isabel Allende
68. The Face on the Milk Carton by Caroline Cooney
69. Slaughterhouse-Five by Kurt Vonnegut
70. Lord of the Flies by William Golding
71. Native Son by Richard Wright
72. Women on Top: How Real Life Has Changed Women’s Fantasies by Nancy Friday
73. Curses, Hexes and Spells by Daniel Cohen
74. Jack by A.M. Homes
75. Bless Me, Ultima by Rudolfo A. Anaya
76. Where Did I Come From? by Peter Mayle
77. Carrie by Stephen King
78. Tiger Eyes by Judy Blume
79. On My Honor by Marion Dane Bauer
80. Arizona Kid by Ron Koertge
81. Family Secrets by Norma Klein
82. Mommy Laid An Egg by Babette Cole
83. The Dead Zone by Stephen King
84. The Adventures of Tom Sawyer by Mark Twain
85. Song of Solomon by Toni Morrison
86. Always Running by Luis Rodriguez
87. Private Parts by Howard Stern
88. Where’s Waldo? by Martin Hanford
89. Summer of My German Soldier by Bette Greene
90. Little Black Sambo by Helen Bannerman
91. Pillars of the Earth by Ken Follett
92. Running Loose by Chris Crutcher
93. Sex Education by Jenny Davis
94. The Drowning of Stephen Jones by Bette Greene
95. Girls and Sex by Wardell Pomeroy
96. How to Eat Fried Worms by Thomas Rockwell
97. View from the Cherry Tree by Willo Davis Roberts
98. The Headless Cupid by Zilpha Keatley Snyder
99. The Terrorist by Caroline Cooney
100. Jump Ship to Freedom by James Lincoln Collier and Christopher Collier
Source
:ninja:
Does anyone know if there are any banned books in the u.k? Every single Mills and Boon book ever written should be banned.
Quote:
Originally posted by MagicNakor@9 May 2003 - 12:14
The Top 100 Most Frequently Challenged Books of 1990-2000
1. Scary Stories (Series) by Alvin Schwartz
2. Daddy’s Roommate by Michael Willhoite
3. I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings by Maya Angelou
4. The Chocolate War by Robert Cormier
5. The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn by Mark Twain
6. Of Mice and Men by John Steinbeck
7. Harry Potter (Series) by J.K. Rowling
8. Forever by Judy Blume
9. Bridge to Terabithia by Katherine Paterson
10. Alice (Series) by Phyllis Reynolds Naylor
11. Heather Has Two Mommies by Leslea Newman
12. My Brother Sam is Dead by James Lincoln Collier and Christopher Collier
13. The Catcher in the Rye by J.D. Salinger
14. The Giver by Lois Lowry
15. It’s Perfectly Normal by Robie Harris
16. Goosebumps (Series) by R.L. Stine
17. A Day No Pigs Would Die by Robert Newton Peck
18. The Color Purple by Alice Walker
19. Sex by Madonna
20. Earth’s Children (Series) by Jean M. Auel
21. The Great Gilly Hopkins by Katherine Paterson
22. A Wrinkle in Time by Madeleine L’Engle
23. Go Ask Alice by Anonymous
24. Fallen Angels by Walter Dean Myers
25. In the Night Kitchen by Maurice Sendak
26. The Stupids (Series) by Harry Allard
27. The Witches by Roald Dahl
28. The New Joy of Gay Sex by Charles Silverstein
29. Anastasia Krupnik (Series) by Lois Lowry
30. The Goats by Brock Cole
31. Kaffir Boy by Mark Mathabane
32. Blubber by Judy Blume
33. Killing Mr. Griffin by Lois Duncan
34. Halloween ABC by Eve Merriam
35. We All Fall Down by Robert Cormier
36. Final Exit by Derek Humphry
37. The Handmaid’s Tale by Margaret Atwood
38. Julie of the Wolves by Jean Craighead George
39. The Bluest Eye by Toni Morrison
40. What’s Happening to my Body? Book for Girls: A Growing-Up Guide for Parents & Daughters by Lynda Madaras
41. To Kill a Mockingbird by Harper Lee
42. Beloved by Toni Morrison
43. The Outsiders by S.E. Hinton
44. The Pigman by Paul Zindel
45. Bumps in the Night by Harry Allard
46. Deenie by Judy Blume
47. Flowers for Algernon by Daniel Keyes
48. Annie on my Mind by Nancy Garden
49. The Boy Who Lost His Face by Louis Sachar
50. Cross Your Fingers, Spit in Your Hat by Alvin Schwartz
51. A Light in the Attic by Shel Silverstein
52. Brave New World by Aldous Huxley
53. Sleeping Beauty Trilogy by A.N. Roquelaure (Anne Rice)
54. Asking About Sex and Growing Up by Joanna Cole
55. Cujo by Stephen King
56. James and the Giant Peach by Roald Dahl
57. The Anarchist Cookbook by William Powell
58. Boys and Sex by Wardell Pomeroy
59. Ordinary People by Judith Guest
60. American Psycho by Bret Easton Ellis
61. What’s Happening to my Body? Book for Boys: A Growing-Up Guide for Parents & Sons by Lynda Madaras
62. Are You There, God? It’s Me, Margaret by Judy Blume
63. Crazy Lady by Jane Conly
64. Athletic Shorts by Chris Crutcher
65. Fade by Robert Cormier
66. Guess What? by Mem Fox
67. The House of Spirits by Isabel Allende
68. The Face on the Milk Carton by Caroline Cooney
69. Slaughterhouse-Five by Kurt Vonnegut
70. Lord of the Flies by William Golding
71. Native Son by Richard Wright
72. Women on Top: How Real Life Has Changed Women’s Fantasies by Nancy Friday
73. Curses, Hexes and Spells by Daniel Cohen
74. Jack by A.M. Homes
75. Bless Me, Ultima by Rudolfo A. Anaya
76. Where Did I Come From? by Peter Mayle
77. Carrie by Stephen King
78. Tiger Eyes by Judy Blume
79. On My Honor by Marion Dane Bauer
80. Arizona Kid by Ron Koertge
81. Family Secrets by Norma Klein
82. Mommy Laid An Egg by Babette Cole
83. The Dead Zone by Stephen King
84. The Adventures of Tom Sawyer by Mark Twain
85. Song of Solomon by Toni Morrison
86. Always Running by Luis Rodriguez
87. Private Parts by Howard Stern
88. Where’s Waldo? by Martin Hanford
89. Summer of My German Soldier by Bette Greene
90. Little Black Sambo by Helen Bannerman
91. Pillars of the Earth by Ken Follett
92. Running Loose by Chris Crutcher
93. Sex Education by Jenny Davis
94. The Drowning of Stephen Jones by Bette Greene
95. Girls and Sex by Wardell Pomeroy
96. How to Eat Fried Worms by Thomas Rockwell
97. View from the Cherry Tree by Willo Davis Roberts
98. The Headless Cupid by Zilpha Keatley Snyder
99. The Terrorist by Caroline Cooney
100. Jump Ship to Freedom by James Lincoln Collier and Christopher Collier
Source
:ninja:
Thanks for posting that list MagicNakor. It's from the American Library Association and I'm sure I said "NOT" the list of challenged books. I can't see "The Turner Diaries" or anything like that. Where's the books by David Irving?? When I said "Banned" books I didn't mean ones that mentioned witchcraft, race, sexuality, etc. Sorry if I didn't make myself clear. Interestingly I was reading the ALA site this morning and I'm sure I recall that a school in the US (where else??) has banned Fahrenheit 451!!! What a distinct lack of irony. :lol: That's what you get for living in a Fundamentalist country I suppose. "Book burners" banning a book about book burning and intellectual freedom - priceless!!! :lol:
They usually lump banned and challenged books together. Furthermore, there is more than one list compiled of banned books. ;)
But here are some more.
Ulysses by James Joyce
Candide by Voltaire
Fanny Hill (Memoirs of a Woman of Pleasure) by John Cleland
Lysistrata by Aristophanes
The Canterbury Tales by Chaucer
The Decameron by Boccaccio
Moll Flanders by Defoe
various editions of The Arabian Nights
Family Limitation by Margaret Sanger
Leaves of Grass by Walt Whitman
Confessions by Jean-Jacques Rousseau
The Rights of Man and The Age of Reason by Thomas Paine
The Provincial Letters by Blaise Pascal
Jerusalem Delivered by Tasso
Call of the Wild by Jack London
Frankenstein by Mary Shelley
Black Beauty by Anna Sewell
State and Revolution by Lenin
Can Such Things Be? by Ambrose Bierce
Civil Disobedience by Thoreau
The Bible and The Quran
Lady Chatterley's Lover by D.H. Lawrence
E for Ecstasy
Did Six Million Really Die? by Ernst Zündl
Hamlet, Macbeth, King Lear, Twelfth Night, and the Merchant of Venice by William Shakespeare
Origin of Species by Charles Darwin
Little Red Riding Hood
Tom Sawyer and Huckleberry Finn by Mark Twain
Uncle Tom's Cabin by Harriet Stowe
Silas Marner by George Eliot
Gone With the Wind by Margaret Mitchell
Essay Concerning Human Understanding by John Locke
The Story of Little Black Sambo by Helen Bannerman
And the top 10 banned books
1. Ulysses by James Joyce
2. Adventures of Huckleberry Finn by Mark Twain
3. Madame Bovary by Gustave Flaubert
4. The Scarlet Letter by Nathaniel Hawthorne
5. Uncle Tom's Cabin by Harriet Beecher Stowe
6. Of Mice and Men by John Steinbeck
7. Brave New World by Aldous Huxley
8. Lady Chatterley's Lover by D.H. Lawrence
9. Moll Flanders by Daniel Defoe
10. Candide by Voltaire
:ninja:
there are no banned books in the USA there is no law preventing u from printing any book there are a few laws to limit the sale of certin books to adults
there are a few orgs that are trying to get books baned but all they can do is keep them out of there school or public libary they can not stop the sale and distribution of them though
certin types of porn are not allowed but there not books anyway, there porn.
and even there its only due to age limitations of the models and the peps who can buy them
and LOL baning fairy tales and darwin
its unbeleveable what a christen will do to protec there faith
guess they dont like fairy tails cus there too much like there bible tails
hummmmmmm...
fairy tails
bible tails
is this a coinsidence? woud u notice the diffrence if they where reversed?
no, there is no federal law about that, but I believe states or even cities are free to ban books from libraries or schools if they want that.Quote:
Originally posted by QuietSilence!@10 May 2003 - 11:01
there are no banned books in the USA there is no law preventing u from printing any book there are a few laws to limit the sale of certin books to adults
btw: It's a disgrace that they banned 'Candide'....it's one of the most beautiful stories I've ever read! :(
i just had to read this book in english class. i have to write an essay on it due in two days! (on is holden a "phony"? yes, he is). i dont see why it should be banned nowadays. tv, movies, and music are MUCH worse. maybe it should have been banned and outrageous in the 50s, but now? its ridiculous.
Quote:
Originally posted by Skweeky@10 May 2003 - 09:40
no, there is no federal law about that, but I believe states or even cities are free to ban books from libraries or schools if they want that.
btw: It's a disgrace that they banned 'Candide'....it's one of the most beautiful stories I've ever read! :( [/quote]
no states and citys cant ban a book ether
but school boards and libary boards can
school board get away with it cus they are quote protecting the children
public libarys get a way with it cus they arnt real public there privaty owned and run for profit so the libary board has the right to not stock that book basicly the same as being baned
there are a lot of documents out there that they would like to ban but it all ties in with the fredom of speach so they cant real get around it
ie the anarcist cook book the fbi go nuts over this thing but they cant stop it from being printed and sold
btw way never read candide but u have convinced me to check it out
lol besides its on the ban list so its got to be a must read :)
Just because it's banned doesn't mean it's a must-read. ;) There are some really bad (as in boring and/or poorly written) books that've been banned too. Although sometimes it's easier to get people (especially students) to read a particular book if you tell them it's been banned. :rolleyes:
:ninja:
@ QuietSilence: I liked 'Candide' a lot, it's a very nice story and the use of language is excellent. But you have to be into this stuff. The classical french works are very long and sometimes boring because of all the descriptions. I've read the book in french, because there is no way that someone can translate Voltaire and still do honour to the original text......
BTW: did anyone notice that the works written by Marquis De Sade are not in the banned/challenged books list? Strange huh, cause those books contain pornography and S&M.....
Read catcher a couple of years ago......dont know what all the fuss was about...get much worse stuff on TV...
Lovely case of double standards there..
The Marquis' journals are not...well-known...and usually not for "public consumption." ;) Most people know what they detail, but very few people have ever seen a copy, fewer still have read it.Quote:
Originally posted by Skweeky@11 May 2003 - 13:45
BTW: did anyone notice that the works written by Marquis De Sade are not in the banned/challenged books list? Strange huh, cause those books contain pornography and S&M.....
:ninja:
weird....you can find his works in almost every library down here.....
Most people have heard of 120 Days of Sodom. They're available, for sure, but they aren't..put on display..shall we say. ;)
And it's completely understandable, really. It's some of the most digusting and twisted stuff I've read. Noblesse oblige my ass.
:ninja:
yes, ok, it isn't all that pretty......but must the sick mind be withheld from the audience? Why shouldn't we explore the dark sides of the human being...it's there for sure. Better acknowledge it and deal with it then instead of pretending it's not there at all....
But ofcourse, that is nothing but my humble opinion :lol:
BTW: r u stalking me MagicNakor? :lol: :lol: :lol:
No. Should I be?
I don't think the Marquis' writings should be really made available front and centre (although recently a new movie was made about him...Quills...haven't seen it yet). It has nothing to do with ignoring what he wrote (and did..), but rather to...ah I can't think tonight...protect isn't the word I want, nor is shield...oh well, it'll have to do...the more sensitive as well as the more mentally unstable throughout the population (not to mention the young people, who are trying to figure out their own sexuality, or the very young, who are curious. Can you imagine explaining what "sodomy" means to a three year old?! :blink: I don't think I'd be able to). It's very graphic stuff, and if one was so inclined, it makes it very easy to "copycat" his actions. I'm not saying censor it (which it probably sounds like, because my words are failing me tonight :(), but casual reading it is not.
:ninja:
I was only kidding, because you replied to every thread I was replying to :lol:
I've seen 'Quills', it wasn't that good really.....they made it look like De Sade was just someone who wanted to write romantic explicit lovestories.....
Well, they certainly were explicit. :rolleyes:
:ninja:
Nobody mentioned the fact that the most common and possibly the most
important book of all time, the HOLY BIBLE has been banned from almost
every major public school in america! B)
Freedom?! :ph34r:
edit : i desided not to start a religin war in my preshious book world
Ah, a wise choice ;)Quote:
Originally posted by QuietSilence!@12 May 2003 - 18:32
edit : i desided not to start a religin war in my preshious book world
I was not trying to start a debate, only stating a highly overlooked fact B)
Then you also "overlooked" the fact that the Holy Bible isn't the most important book of all time. I'm not able to say whether or it is the most common, because I don't have numbers comparing it and the Quran.
:ninja:
I wouldn't say The Bible is the most important book ever printed, but it sure is the the most printed one.....
Hmmm. What do you think is worse? Books being banned entirely, or books being altered so that they are acceptable to those in power, and then released to the public. Just curious since you brought up The Bible, which is definitely the most printed book in the world (many times over), and has been "translated" (altered) into thousands of versions over the years.
hummm good point id say that being changed to conforum to someone elses views is way worse then banning it as the orignal may then be forgot compleatly and if its just baned u may still find one around some where and baning it in an of its self will make it more famus
Well aren't you all a bunch of "enlightened" people, I just can't compete with your level of intelligence <_<
I never said that the bible WAS the most important, I said: possibly.
My point was this: Why is it ok to have any book in a public school EXEPT the bible.
I have said my peace, and will not continue with this topic any longer :ph34r:
Incidentally, I have read the catcher in the rye, and found it rather boring :lol:
lol what makes u think the bible is the only book not in schools its only 1 of hundreds that are not in themQuote:
Originally posted by fallenknight308@17 May 2003 - 03:11
Well aren't you all a bunch of "enlightened" people, I just can't compete with your level of intelligence <_<
I never said that the bible WAS the most important, I said: possibly.
My point was this: Why is it ok to have any book in a public school EXEPT the bible.
I have said my peace, and will not continue with this topic any longer :ph34r:
Incidentally, I have read the catcher in the rye, and found it rather boring :lol:
its one thing for an adult to read a book its totaly diffrent subjecting children to some subjects and supperstichin should not be tought in school if fact children should be thought to avoid superstichin and think for them selves
lol bibe ahh your not boring enough :lol: