Cold blooded Hero's, be proud of them :yup:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Hdm89WxkGs[/youtube]
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Cold blooded Hero's, be proud of them :yup:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Hdm89WxkGs[/youtube]
What was "cold blooded"?
It didn't even look like they shot him as there's no reaction from the guy after the shot. Then the video cuts away, so as to give that impression that they did.
Then we see the guy sitting up.
Try again, troll.
i thought these poor Arabs don't have money for food, at least they have a video camera "contingently". And what exactly happened there? u don't know, so u can't judge.
anyway, if u wanna see the damage that was made to him:Quote:
http://www.ynet.co.il/PicServer2/02012008/1554790/20-07-08_1524_hh.jpg
not worse then after playing football
so typical of you!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Skizo
watch clearly, his right leg, you can see the bullet/blood mark.
i wonder if fox news shows this at all.
by that i assume you've been shot before in your leg and it only felt like knocking you down in football.Quote:
not worse then after playing football
camera what camera, its clearly a mobile cam with that poor quality, you can get one for 20$.
His right leg is clearly seen when he is lying on the ground and no blood is visible to me.
I don't however believe that the Israeli Army is incapable of fuckups or mistreatment, nor are the soldiers of my own country. No one said anything of sort.
I just don't believe the happenings of what occurred in the video is being accurately portrayed.
yes its quality is like every other movie on youtube with a camera who uses zoomQuote:
Originally Posted by BawA
now for all the worried arabs here like you, the soldier is in prison. in the investigation it was found that the soldiers misunderstood his commander's order, who told him to frighten him again, u don't know all that happened there, but by the fact that a video camera was involved, u can clearly understand that there was a provocation).
ps. it was a rubber bullet
well, since yesterday, and as we speak now, it is, for a reason i don't comprehend, the top story in the front page in the most watched Israeli news site.Quote:
Originally Posted by BawA
Typical? I rarely even post in this section and to my knowledge have never posted any any substantial comment (if any at all) whatsoever with regard to Israeli/Palestinian affairs. And certainly not enough where any remark could be noted as "typical".Quote:
Originally Posted by bawa
I'll also have you note that there was no bullet and no (visible) blood, though you obviously feel you could "clearly" see it. He was shot with a rubber bullet and is doing just fine. The soldiers in question have also been reprimanded. I can see now that you're just making this shit up as you go.
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/20...nt_8706416.htm
Also, why would any American news network show it? It's hardly relative to our interests when someone across the world is shot with a rubber pellet.
but its clearly in your interest when a harmless aqsa bomb drop on a empty land waking up some settlers. but a guy got shot because soldier "misunderstood" order is nothing of your concern.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skizo
this 2nd time with same type of answer in regard to what i have asked in past 2 threads. not typical :huh:Quote:
Typical? I rarely even post in this section
how old you are to believe that kinda of bullshit. frighten him... ok ill shoot him.Quote:
now for all the worried arabs here like you, the soldier is in prison. in the investigation it was found that the soldiers misunderstood his commander's order, who told him to frighten him again, u don't know all that happened there, but by the fact that a video camera was involved, u can clearly understand that there was a provocation).
the reason why there was a camera, if you watch video with open mind you can see in beginning that there was a group protesting, when one taken you dont expect the remaining run away, it happen that somebody got a peak at what went over there. not so weird when in other part of world a scandal is caught on mobile, huh?
Israeli forces use rubber encased steel bullet for crowd control(not an unusual practice btw) but their minimum safe firing range is 40 meters.Quote:
Originally Posted by torrentt
Closer than that and they can pierce skin and break bone.
Even at a safe distance head shots(you are only suppose to shoot at legs) have been known to be fatal.
Just wanted to post this out of fairness.Rubber bullets aren't toys.
they are for skizo and the other guy(who ever he is), and its only like getting tackled in football :dry:Quote:
Originally Posted by IdolEyes787Israeli forces use rubber encased steel bullet for crowd control(not an unusual practice btw) but their minimum safe firing range is 40 meters.Quote:
Originally Posted by torrentt
Closer than that and they can pierce skin and break bone.
Even at a safe distance head shots(you are only suppose to shoot at legs) have been known to be fatal.
Just wanted to post this out of fairness.Rubber bullets aren't toys.
maybe he thinks its one of those rubbers bullets which i used to play with it to hunt birds which rarely got dropped anything.
Oh c'mon... Again, lies. :dabs:Quote:
Originally Posted by blahwa
I never answered any question of yours with any comment even close to that.
I'm done with you. I'm not even going to continue responding to your blatant fallacies. You've obviously got an agenda, so please, carry on with your blather; just note that no one is buying it.
I couldn't agree more.Quote:
Originally Posted by IdolEyes787
BawA, you are making a fool of yourself by comparing the 2 threads, this one to the one with samir kuntar which is your hero. Kuntar shot a man at close range in the back, in front of his daughter, and drowned him in the sea to ensure he was dead. Next, he smashed the head of 4 year-old Einat on beach rocks and crushed her skull with the butt of his rifle. its not even close to shooting a rubber bullet at someone's toe.
if you are trying to say that Israel is worse then the arab world so you live in a weird bubble and i feel sorry for you.
its not like i love your replies, its obvious you dont have guts to stick to the argument, get lost!!
well the difference is this:
If an Israeli soldier shoots a toe - he goes to prison.
If an Arab man kill 4 years old child and her father - he becomes an international hero in the arab world.
says who? this is a one in hundred shot, all those crimes happening only few of them gets coverage which un-willingly some action is taken about it.Quote:
well the difference is this:
If an Israeli soldier shoots a toe - he goes to prison.
If an Arab man kill 4 years old child and her father - he becomes an international hero in the arab world.
before the upraising such thing was a matter of Israeli pride, only after wards media came into mainstreaming these crimes and jew state started to lose some advantage of being the hated nation in middle east therefore some secrecy was applied to riot controls.
ok tell us what is the problem you are trying to define and what is your solution to it?Quote:
Originally Posted by BawA
i just don't see what is your point as a biased person.
video has been taken off you tube, but can be seen here
Skizo - the soldier has admitted the shooting so its not a fake
torrentt - re the video camera vs food thing - you're an ignorant cunt
general - as suggested rubber bullets at point blank are gonna hurt like fuck
skizo & torrentt - i wasn't aware they'd been reprimanded or sent to prison, all i've seen is that its being investigated and the soldier in question & his commander have talked to military police. From what i saw the soldier is blaming his commander for ordering him to fire, the commander is saying that he just told the soldier to scare the prisoner by shaking his gun (though how you scare a blindfolded person by shaking a gun escapes me). Anyway the upshot is that as usual the chances of anyone facing any serious disciplinary action are somewhere between none and fuck all.
Just 2 minor quibbles, firstly as i said I'm betting the israeli soldier won't go to prison, secondly the arab child who killed another child and her father - has been in prison for 30 years. He's no hero, he was a crazy arsehole as a child, but 30 years on who knows what he's like... I don't necessarily think he should be released it all depends on whether he's likely to kill again.Quote:
Originally Posted by torrentt
ilw, facts tells that each time that Israel released Arabs from prison in such deals, some of those Arabs came back and killed Israelis.
kuntar is now a part of hizbullah as far as can be seen by the reception he got and we all know what hizbullahs primary goal.
for the video camera vs food thing, we see many of these things that poor arabs are "victoms" of bad Israelis, don't you wonder if it is a provocation or why don't u see opposite incidents photographed by these Arabs? why u see only a small scene of that occasion? instead of making the hatred grow more and more, why don't they establish a country in their territory and prove the world they can do it?
I never said or even insinuated that the video was fake. It's obviously a video taped event. :huh:Quote:
Skizo - the soldier has admitted the shooting so its not a fake
What I did state was that I just didn't believe the happenings of what occurred in the video was being accurately portrayed.
who said they are poor, damp fuck, its Israel closing the bypasses and foods dont get to gaza people, camera is one timer, you got it once and you can use for as long as it lasts, food is something which runs out. food is not the only thing.Quote:
we see many of these things that poor arabs are "victoms" of bad Israelis, don't you wonder if it is a provocation or why don't u see opposite incidents photographed by these Arabs?
beside war is not always won with guns and muscles, some time using your mind(aka exposing the enemy) works just like any other tactics, something similar to major news channels in USA propagandizing for US in last Iraq war.
i wonder what you would say next... "i thought Arabs didnt had car" well they do, and they do in Gaza as well but its Israel stopping fuel supply to Gaza as well.
I just saw a story on the news where a Western journalist was allowed to interview someone who attempted a suicide bombing in Afghanistan.
The writer was expecting some hardened Taliban fanatic.He was shocked to find a frightened 14 year old boy.
The pathetic child didn't even know what suicide meant.He was simply told if he carried out his task he would be allowed to see his mother again.
He was totally unaware of the consequences to what he was doing.
I know Afghanistan isn't Gaza but would this fall under the heading of other tactics or using your mind?
how would you loved that to be portrayed? "A soldier accidentally shot a blindfolded guy when he was trying to fly away a mosquito from him, when questioned soldier said his commanding officer was concerned of wounded guy's health and ordered him to shot away the bug; mosquito was quite large " :shutup:Quote:
Originally Posted by Skizo
how did i miss that...Quote:
BawA, you are making a fool of yourself by comparing the 2 threads, this one to the one with samir kuntar which is your hero. Kuntar shot a man at close range in the back, in front of his daughter, and drowned him in the sea to ensure he was dead. Next, he smashed the head of 4 year-old Einat on beach rocks and crushed her skull with the butt of his rifle. its not even close to shooting a rubber bullet at someone's toe.
if you are trying to say that Israel is worse then the arab world so you live in a weird bubble and i feel sorry for you.
point in making this thread is not to compare the circumstances which led into what happened but to understand the events.
and FYKI Arab world is not only Lebanon and Palestine which jew state has problem with, you wont find rats about violence in gulf countries except iraq which again America has presence there , infect jew state is so keen to start relation with GCC and am not talking out of my ass(like you) its documented news where shimon Perez was pushing himself between arab politicians specially Qatar's prince. and again for your info you dont know how high is standard in some GCC countries you wont see such in California leave alone so called "Haifa", British people would murder to get here in Dubai(300k living here).
Bawa, i read and i read what you write here, and i see u'r an idiot
last time we opened the bypasses, the poor arabs killed the 2 drivers who went to give the poor arabs supply
and who used muscles? the poor arabs clearly say they will kidnap more and more israelis so they can trade them for the other poor arabs who are involved in killing israelis. hamas kill fatah ppl and throw them out of tall buildings - force is the only way of life for the poor arabs.
i know poor arabs do have cars, and i know where are all the fuel come from too, do u know where is it from?
and for the protocol by saing poor arabs i'm talking about the palestenians and i'm being cynical
Excuse me, you know this how? :huh: You've never served in the IDF and you never will, so you'll never kow. So don't state facts that aren't accurate.Quote:
Originally Posted by BawA
My friend is a cameraman in the IDF, and he actually videotaped an event which showed why and how the IDF soldeirs are always shown as the bad guys, though in reality it's far from the truth.
I cannot elaborate on this videotape as it's classified (in actual fact, not even I was meant to see it).
Seems the point needs to be reiterated every so often that good info is hard to find.
These arguments always follow incidents the documentation of which is necessarily suspect.
Bottom line is we each end up making the arguments we are disposed to make, whatever the evidence.
Ironic that the argument over whose documentation of these events is (more) legitimate is easily as bilious as the Arab/Israeli debate itself.
Seems to me that the issue of who's interpretation is more credible is distracting from the proper issue.
Even if we accept the most innocuous explanation, that the officer wanted the soldier to scare the Palestinian and the soldier misunderstood, we should be asking 2 questions.
Why did the officer want to scare the Palestinian, as far as I'm aware there are no reports that he was doing anything wrong?
Why would the soldier think that scaring someone would involve shooting that person in the foot?
To my mind, these two questions raise considerable doubts about the supposed integrity of the IDF. If their officers can't act properly, and their soldiers don't understand that shooting people for the heck of it is wrong, then the whole setup stinks and those supporting its actions need to have a serious re-evaluation of their own standards.
could that be Zohan movie :pinch:Quote:
Originally Posted by tralalalaExcuse me, you know this how? :huh: You've never served in the IDF and you never will, so you'll never kow. So don't state facts that aren't accurate.Quote:
Originally Posted by BawA
My friend is a cameraman in the IDF, and he actually videotaped an event which showed why and how the IDF soldeirs are always shown as the bad guys, though in reality it's far from the truth.
I cannot elaborate on this videotape as it's classified (in actual fact, not even I was meant to see it).
in recent news the officer has admitted the guilt of Ordering to shoot the helpless protester.
i wonder what you will come up in defense.
its started to look in here like war crime trails, hopeless arguments .
could be interesting, i wonder what will happen to the soldier that fired. Surely a defence of 'only following orders' won't fly in Israel of all places?
i don't know what will happen to the soldier who fired, or to his commander, but i do know this, such an investigation will never occur on the other side, on the contrary, they will be idols over there.
"...the army on Tuesday suspended a commander for 10 days after he failed a lie-detection test over the shooting of a blindfolded and handcuffed Palestinian with a rubber-coated bullet."
by that sentence ppl may think that the Palestinian is badly wounded, its misleading - this incident does not deserve to be in the top news for such a long time, in the Israeli main news site its until now on the main page with updates, ffsQuote:
Originally Posted by Skizo
You still haven't got it, have you?Quote:
Originally Posted by torrenttby that sentence ppl may think that the Palestinian is badly wounded, its misleading - this incident does not deserve to be in the top news for such a long time, in the Israeli main news site its until now on the main page with updates, ffsQuote:
Originally Posted by Skizo
It isn't the severity of the incident nor the extent of the man's injuries that are the important factors here, it's the underlying ethos that allows members of the IDF to even consider these sort of actions. Those involved should have been immediately arrested subject to an inquiry. The fact that they weren't is indicative that the people in charge of the IDF have little or no interest in preventing a recurrence.
The argument that the other side does worse holds no water, they simply say that they respond to the IDF's actions. Neither are correct responses.
and you haven't got it that if you look on almost all the rest of the armies in the world, you will see X10-X20 more terrible things, that don't even get near the attention that this new is getting.
there is no army in the world without flaws
can you please at least condemn the shooting of an unarmed, blindfolded and incapacitated person, as it would be comforting to know that you have a shred of humanity left in you.Quote:
Originally Posted by torrenttby that sentence ppl may think that the Palestinian is badly wounded, its misleading - this incident does not deserve to be in the top news for such a long time, in the Israeli main news site its until now on the main page with updates, ffsQuote:
Originally Posted by Skizo
This sounds like the beginning of another "others do it, so why shouldn't we" excuse.Quote:
Originally Posted by torrentt
I doubt that other armies behave anything like as badly as you claim, but if you can produce some evidence I'm willing to examine it. Certainly, most armies treat these sort of actions very seriously when those in charge learn of them. I would equally condemn any that don't, but they aren't the issue here.
Trying to defend the indefensible is bound to fail.
so if some go roof jumping you must go as well ?:dry:Quote:
Originally Posted by torrentt
the simple fact is most of war crimes go un-noticed because the secrecy but those which are uncovered are subject to debate which leads to other screw up's.
saying that other crimes dont get as much attention as what happens on your side is lame excuse, specially when western worlds are mostly on Israel's side.
yeh your great Allie for example.Quote:
there is no army in the world without flaws
Funny this, it seems that you "want" Israel to be an example for all armies in the world.. As if the Israeli army is always under the watching eye, and no other army is..Quote:
Originally Posted by lynx
Just a side-thought.
Anyway, back on to the matter in discussion...
I didn't really want to go ahead and write this, but seeing as none of you really know what serving in the IDF is like, I guess I'll have to do it anyway.
Serving in the IDF is probably one of the most difficult jobs in the modern world.. Not only do you have to defend yourself and your country with an iron fist, but you also have to try and do it in the most humane way, when in front of you come plenty of arrogant people who don't understand this fact, and try to mingle with the soldiers who barely get enough sleep and who are under constant threat of being shot in the head by the odd Palestinian sniper here and there.
So, basically, soldiers in the IDF are subject to one of 2 things - First, they have to be humane, do stuff according to the "game rules" and co., or suffer punishment by the IDF court of justice. Second, they must serve their country and defend it, while getting plenty of negative feedback from around the world. Therefor, there's a lose-lose situation for every soldier in our arm here, because on the one hand they are being hassled by Palestinians who simply won't realise the situation and carry on fucking around and then are surprised they get shot, and on the other hand they are always being criticised.. Whether by the IDF for not doing their job well, or by the rest of the world for doing it too good.
Once again, just a side-thought..