I'm not making any more giveaways

I don't know why, but some people tend to be idiots Before I give any invite, I make sure that the person is doing well on other trackers, and have a nice speed I ask for 2 speedtests , and I check them all I invited someone to a tracker here's what happened - 2 speedtests with 3 Mb/s upload - 3 Screenshots and 1 profile link - He signed up with his forum user name - He's connectible on the tracker, and yet his ratio is

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Share ratio : 0.005

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I don't know what to do, soon the tracker's staff will find.

Why not contact the member you gave the invite to in the first instance in case there is a genuine reason/problem for the poor ratio?

If there is none then either you're gonna have to hope if the staff on the tracker are understanding about it and don't take any action against you..... OR, you could approach them first and explain things yourself.

Which tracker was it? And how come this query on BT is in the lounge? I don't think that'll go down too well in here to some :lol:

How much time has passed since you invited him? You can't expect everyone to have a great ratio in just a day, even if they have a good upload speed.

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Originally Posted by AdrianPhoto

I don't know what to do, soon the tracker's staff will find.

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Most trackers give you a grace period to increase your ratio, not to mention the actual ratio requirements often only come into effect after you've downloaded a certain amount.

It would be great if you could uninvite some one you invited...
Talk to your invitee and see what the deal is. If you get no response, or do not like the response, take it up with the tracker staff. They are going to be much more responsive if you go to them, rather then waiting for them to come to you most likely.

Well, everything is pretty simple. If you have invites that doesn't mean that you need to use them. So just invite your friends only or do not invite anybody ;) Screenshots, profile links, activity aren't real arguments. It's just a nice wrapper.

That tends to happen when you do giveaways on sites like this. I almost lost an account on a tracker due to inviting a trader err i invited him from the power user section on norbits. :frusty:

Personally I tend to like having the invitee write in the excess of 1 or more paragraphs about why he'd want to join the tracker.

Anyone who's willing to write a decently semi-coherent paragraph on why he/she wishes to join is at least a little more credible to me than a sugar coating of ratio proofs.

But alas, with the disadvantages of a public forum, there are always be bad apples in the forum. I would advise forcing applicants to apply in public so members can check on their history, and perhaps asking the mods to check up on them, as from this thread:

http://filesharingtalk.com/vb3/f-bit...section-377973

I took this decision a long time ago =/

Anyway, as someone else said, sometimes you have to give him some time to improve his ratio. Take a look at the amount he already downloaded and you can have an idea of his intentions.

I remember you were asking for a bitme invite a while ago... Seems to be a nice guy.

Hope you solve your problem soon and that this guy you invited turns out to be a good user.

Thanks everyone for being part of the discussion as you can see, I'm not writing this to complain about what happened, what's done.. is done. and this is a lesson for me, I'll try to contact the tracker's staff to help resolve this.

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Why not contact the member you gave the invite to in the first instance in case there is a genuine reason/problem for the poor ratio?

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Actually I tried to, but go no response

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Most trackers give you a grace period to increase your ratio, not to mention the actual ratio requirements often only come into effect after you've downloaded a certain amount.

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That's what keeping me patient until now

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It would be great if you could uninvite some one you invited...

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Like if there was a button, "UnInvite", you know, that can be activated when the invitee has a low-low-low ratio, ah! that would be greate.

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Well, everything is pretty simple. If you have invites that doesn't mean that you need to use them. So just invite your friends only or do not invite anybody

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in the meantime, I'll stick to that.. But I know me.. I'll just post a giveaway thread in a week or so, talking about being stupid!

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That tends to happen when you do giveaways on sites like this. I almost lost an account on a tracker due to inviting a trader err i invited him from the power user section on norbits.

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I guess I'll just have to learn from my mistakes then.

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But alas, with the disadvantages of a public forum, there are always be bad apples in the forum. I would advise forcing applicants to apply in public so members can check on their history, and perhaps asking the mods to check up on them

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That would be the best thing to do in the current circumstances. Thanks again everybody

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I remember you were asking for a bitme invite a while ago... Seems to be a nice guy.

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Actually this is what makes me do these giveaways, not being nice of course, but rather that I was in deep need for something and the community was generous enough to grant me my year-old wish, I feel obligated to give something back to the community.

Well in your case, the person at least use the tracker (wrongly). I have given out invites to people who, after registration, never use the tracker. what a waste.

When you break trackers' rules you take your chances of things like this happening, it was your choice unfortunately.

Try contacting him on FST or on the tracker... Or even his email.

If he doesn't respond (and its obvious he doesn't want to) I would go to the tracker staff and tell them everything you went through.
Maybe he will get the hint when he gets a Private message from an admin or mod.

Definitely try to contact him first because you may lose your invite rights if you go to staff (or in extreme cases may lose your account).

I'm not sure what site your talking about so I can't really give you my assumption of their reaction lol.

Who gives a shit, what do u expect from public giveaways, anyway i love this idea that some a are telling u, go tell the staff ur situaton id love to see their response when u tell them u are giving invites away of fst to total randoms, its not hard to fake speed test and proofs.

Any ur really shouldnt be worried unless he is a cheater, the worst that really can happen to u for inviting someone who doesnt seed that well is that they will take ur invites away big deal.

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Originally Posted by Villalltheway

Who gives a shit, what do u expect from public giveaways, anyway i love this idea that some a are telling u, go tell the staff ur situaton id love to see their response when u tell them u are giving invites away of fst to total randoms, its not hard to fake speed test and proofs.

Any ur really shouldnt be worried unless he is a cheater, the worst that really can happen to u for inviting someone who doesnt seed that well is that they will take ur invites away big deal.

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Damn that is a dark interpretation of the invites section....

You act as if the person was just handed an invite for just posting his email..
They were required to post ratio proofs and a speed test.

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Originally Posted by Tv Controls you

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Originally Posted by Villalltheway

Who gives a shit, what do u expect from public giveaways, anyway i love this idea that some a are telling u, go tell the staff ur situaton id love to see their response when u tell them u are giving invites away of fst to total randoms, its not hard to fake speed test and proofs.

Any ur really shouldnt be worried unless he is a cheater, the worst that really can happen to u for inviting someone who doesnt seed that well is that they will take ur invites away big deal.

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Damn that is a dark interpretation of the invites section....

You act as if the person was just handed an invite for just posting his email..
They were required to post ratio proofs and a speed test.

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put this guy back on disabled privs please :angry:

Either you are failing to see the sarcasm or I am failing to see yours.

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Originally Posted by killercam101

put this guy back on disabled privs please :angry:

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Your profile title suits you well ;)

Maybe your persistent negativity is also what got you kicked from bitmetv, Ptn, and SCL.

uhauhauahua... it's so funny how easily people get mad with each other here :lol:

ps: sorry, off-topic again :huh:

If you insist in putting your accounts in jeopardy then at least be more careful and picky. Get profile links and match up things like country flags and usernames. As someone else mentioned, get them to write more than 5 words. In an Engrish speaking forum such as this and assuming you are giving an invite to an Engrish based tracker, make sure they have a firm grasp at reading and writing Engrish. If they can't read the rules or FAQs then they are at an immediate disadvantage. These are just recommendations...Nothing can protect you 100%. Friends have even been known to screw friends. Sorry to sound pessimistic, as I am really an optimist.

Consider someone who is a mod here and has a giveaway with lots of requests and 100's of posts. The last time I asked he had only given out like 4 invites. Give or take...

Last but not least, if you can resist the temptation and not perform giveaways then you might consider looking for good candidates via their requests...Good luck with that as well though...

most of public GA ended badly so whats the point?

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When you break trackers' rules you take your chances of things like this happening, it was your choice unfortunately.

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Like I said before, it WAS my fault and I should be ready to take responsibility for my actions

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Try contacting him on FST or on the tracker... Or even his email.

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actually I did, but with no response

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its not hard to fake speed test and proofs.

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as for ratio proofs, I think that's super easy but what about profile links? and are you saying you can fake a direct link to speedtest.net? I'm sure that the company runs speedtest would be really interested in you. as for the flaming posts.. no comment

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if you can resist the temptation and not perform giveaways then you might consider looking for good candidates via their requests

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I think this is the best of what been said till now, thank you.

I think you should be a little more patient and give him a chance to improve his ratio. Also, I don't think that complaining to the staff would bring you any good.
About invite requests: you may have unpleasant surprises with them also, I tell you from my own experience.

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Originally Posted by AdrianPhoto

as for ratio proofs, I think that's super easy but what about profile links?

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It doesn't discount the possibility of them having multiple accounts or having an impressive ratio built by cheating.
Unfortunately most profile links don't show forum posts which is the best ( but not guaranteed ) proof of authenticity ( people who break rules tend to try and remain anonymous)

I always think it's a risk we should to take that sometimes the person we invite won't use the opportunity we offer properly.
You see,whatever cautions you use there is still a slight possibility that who you invite maybe a cheater or trader or a collector.
but let's say we stopped public giveaways then there will be no reason most of members here to stay for.
95% of members in this forum and many others are here for getting invites if they don't get them by giveaways or by making friends most of them will turn to trading.cause there will be no other option.
so public giveaways if not against the tracker rules will be a good way to recruit a good new members.
Also i think it's a great idea that the invitee can cancel his invite.actually i was thinking about this a week ago when i wanted to cancel an invite i gave but the only option i had is to contact the tracker staff.
but we have to put in our minds that some people asking for an invite for a certain tracker cause they heard about it but when they actually get in they just get disappoint and don't use it so we have to be patient.
not all the people we invite will be good.

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Originally Posted by SAM

You see,whatever cautions you use there is still a slight possibility that who you invite maybe a cheater or trader or a collector.

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Yes SAM, that could really happen, don't you think SAM ?
We must be very careful with that, don't you think SAM?

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Originally Posted by Cabalo

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Originally Posted by SAM

You see,whatever cautions you use there is still a slight possibility that who you invite maybe a cheater or trader or a collector.

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Yes SAM, that could really happen, don't you think SAM ?
We must be very careful with that, don't you think SAM?

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of course that can happen but still we have to take the risk if that will be within the tracker rules that we offer its invites.
:fst:

Maybe I'm strange, but I really don't get the public giveaway thing. Why anyone who cares about any site would invite random people simply on the basis of a couple of ratio proofs and a speedtest has always been beyond me. Any muppet can rent a seedbox for a month, trade their way into a couple of recognised trackers and pointlessly buffer a couple of ratios to make them look like a good user. By no means does that mean they will be, and by no means would I personally ever risk my own accounts by inviting them on that basis alone.

Speedtests mean nothing really. I know plenty of people who are brilliant torrenters, respecting sites, seeding for ages, getting involved properly in the communities and keeping a positive ratio... while having sucky home connections. Hell, I did it for several years, on sites most people here seem to think you can't survive on without a seedbox, with just 25kb/s upload. In fact, someone with a crappy connection but who can show they survive fine on a good site MUST be a good seeder and resposible torrenter.

And as for "ratio proofs", why do people think the bigger is the better? 1.05 is surely the ideal ratio for someone who is using a tracker properly and genuinely to have? 10 mins effort and a few £ renting a box to buffer hundreds of gb you'll never actually use does not in my mind = proper and genuine use of a tracker, or indicate that someone will use another site I could invite them to properly either.

So, for me at least, the GA cult of ratio proofs and speedtests is pointless, silly and little better guarantee of inviting good users than simply handing out invites to anyone who asks. So anyone who does a GA on that basis alone and gets burnt only has themself to blame imo.

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Originally Posted by MadIrish

Maybe I'm strange, but I really don't get the public giveaway thing. Why anyone who cares about any site would invite random people simply on the basis of a couple of ratio proofs and a speedtest has always been beyond me. Any muppet can rent a seedbox for a month, trade their way into a couple of recognised trackers and pointlessly buffer a couple of ratios to make them look like a good user. By no means does that mean they will be, and by no means would I personally ever risk my own accounts by inviting them on that basis alone.

Speedtests mean nothing really. I know plenty of people who are brilliant torrenters, respecting sites, seeding for ages, getting involved properly in the communities and keeping a positive ratio... while having sucky home connections. Hell, I did it for several years, on sites most people here seem to think you can't survive on without a seedbox, with just 25kb/s upload. In fact, someone with a crappy connection but who can show they survive fine on a good site MUST be a good seeder and resposible torrenter.

And as for "ratio proofs", why do people think the bigger is the better? 1.05 is surely the ideal ratio for someone who is using a tracker properly and genuinely to have? 10 mins effort and a few £ renting a box to buffer hundreds of gb you'll never actually use does not in my mind = proper and genuine use of a tracker, or indicate that someone will use another site I could invite them to properly either.

So, for me at least, the GA cult of ratio proofs and speedtests is pointless, silly and little better guarantee of inviting good users than simply handing out invites to anyone who asks. So anyone who does a GA on that basis alone and gets burnt only has themself to blame imo.

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Thats the kind of shit that screws over BT ..It moves BT from the filesharing platform/protocol to something totally different
I agree ratio proof and Profile links dont guarantee anything but what else do you suggest .. Wait I knw .. Join countless other forums .. Talk to other members, lick their ass, please them and if you are good at it then they might think you are trustworthy and invite you to BT Tracker where you just actually share files which is illegal to begin ..
So lets say someones get a internet connection and wants to download the latest games and Movies for free .. People tell him that BT is free unlike Newsgroup and Rapidshare .. So he decides to try his hand at it .. Little does he knw what awaits him .. Befriend ppl on internet who might be spastics in real , appease them and all the bullshit .. For what just to share his files on the internet ... Do you really think that avg user would do all these things .. Now dont give me that shit that these ppl have to do this just cuz some retard on the internet said that its a privilege to have these trackers .. There is no privilige associated with it .. Trackers are not where the content originates so they have no right over it anyways

Apart from that my good Sir FST is full of Threads of how trusted ppl have betrayed etc .. So there is no fool proof way to do this .. Just dont bash Public GA just cuz some high handed retards think that its just not right ..

Public giveaways are a gateway to this BT scene

@Cabalo - You need to spell it out clearly otherwise SAM wudnt understand what you are trying to imply

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Originally Posted by apextwin146

Thats the kind of shit that screws over BT ..It moves BT from the filesharing platform/protocol to something totally different
I agree ratio proof and Profile links dont guarantee anything but what else do you suggest .. Wait I knw .. Join countless other forums .. Talk to other members, lick their ass, please them and if you are good at it then they might think you are trustworthy and invite you to BT Tracker where you just actually share files which is illegal to begin ..
So lets say someones get a internet connection and wants to download the latest games and Movies for free .. People tell him that BT is free unlike Newsgroup and Rapidshare .. So he decides to try his hand at it .. Little does he knw what awaits him .. Befriend ppl on internet who might be spastics in real , appease them and all the bullshit .. For what just to share his files on the internet ... Do you really think that avg user would do all these things .. Now dont give me that shit that these ppl have to do this just cuz some retard on the internet said that its a privilege to have these trackers .. There is no privilige associated with it .. Trackers are not where the content originates so they have no right over it anyways

Apart from that my good Sir FST is full of Threads of how trusted ppl have betrayed etc .. So there is no fool proof way to do this .. Just dont bash Public GA just cuz some high handed retards think that its just not right ..

Public giveaways are a gateway to this BT scene

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Dude, that's just my opinion, which I don't really think is all that high handed or retarded, but that notwithstanding, I'm also pretty sure its not what "screws over the BT scene". Certainly no more than people constantly breaking tracker rules by handing out invites to people they don't know from Adam on the basis of a couple of screenshots.

All that stuff you said about joining countless forums and kissing countless ass just isn't true. Jeez, there's hundreds of thousands of people who use private bittorrent sites and have never had to do any of that, or wanted to. Usually because those people are happy enough with one or two trackers, but not just because of that. Its more than possible to become a member of sites with any sort of content without invites, there's irc interviews and open signups all over the place; sure the most l33t sites might not operate that way... but then the vast majority of those don't actually have any particularly unique content anyway.

I'm on virtually every private tracker I could ever want or have time to use, and have never had to do any of the stuff you describe. A couple of those I was invited to through staff offers in other sites p/u forums, another couple through friends made in simply going about my time on the net without any thought of gaining invites. In fact not even on BT related sites. All the rest I signed up for at some stage when they were open, and none of it was any hassle or effort whatsoever really. Public giveaways on sites like this one have never even remotely played a role, and in all honesty I really doubt they are a gateway for the vast majority of people who use private torrents, but have no idea about or care for the "Bt scene", just want to download some files. A mate, either real-life or online points them towards (or invites them to) a site or two and that's what they happily use ad infinitum without a thought of joining dozens of others.

Besides, how can public giveaways be a gateway if everyone wants "ratio proofs" from established trackers (and expect them to show massive buffers which "normal" people don't create), and expect them to show speedtests with upload rates far above what a normal home connection is (in most parts of the world)? Surely those requirements favour the tiny majority who rent servers and already have access to plenty of trackers?

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Originally Posted by MadIrish

Dude, that's just my opinion, which I don't really think is all that high handed or retarded, but that notwithstanding, I'm also pretty sure its not what "screws over the BT scene". Certainly no more than people constantly breaking tracker rules by handing out invites to people they don't know from Adam on the basis of a couple of screenshots.

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Then please suggest a easier way of handing out invites ? Again you are suggesting that you should not invite just anyone but only the ppl you knw ..
Since you have given an account of your story let me give you an example .. None of the friends (or friends friends etc) even knw what uTorrent is .. Now i have some invites which are simply lying there without being put into use .. So in your opinion i should just keep them there for stats sake right? Cuz god forbid if i give to some needy user that has put up a request for it .. I am breaking a bt commandment ..

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All that stuff you said about joining countless forums and kissing countless ass just isn't true. Jeez, there's hundreds of thousands of people who use private bittorrent sites and have never had to do any of that, or wanted to. Usually because those people are happy enough with one or two trackers, but not just because of that. Its more than possible to become a member of sites with any sort of content without invites, there's irc interviews and open signups all over the place; sure the most l33t sites might not operate that way... but then the vast majority of those don't actually have any particularly unique content anyway.

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No there arnt hundreds of thousands of BT users in these pvt trackers .. Most of them have a user limit and i guess you are aware of it .. I havent personally visited any other forum but i can tell you this that a lot of new folks that want to get into trackers do it the Pvt Invite forum way and we all knw what happens there ..
To your other point .. I want to join a tracker that specializes in Ipod format Releases.. Now its not a L33t site (its not any level or watever too) .. It dsnt have open signups nor any IRC interview .. Now what do u expect me to do?
Same is the case with many sites that provide some niche content but wait according to your logic those are all l33t sites ..

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I'm on virtually every private tracker I could ever want or have time to use, and have never had to do any of the stuff you describe. A couple of those I was invited to through staff offers in other sites p/u forums, another couple through friends made in simply going about my time on the net without any thought of gaining invites. In fact not even on BT related sites. All the rest I signed up for at some stage when they were open, and none of it was any hassle or effort whatsoever really. Public giveaways on sites like this one have never even remotely played a role, and in all honesty I really doubt they are a gateway for the vast majority of people who use private torrents, but have no idea about or care for the "Bt scene", just want to download some files. A mate, either real-life or online points them towards (or invites them to) a site or two and that's what they happily use ad infinitum without a thought of joining dozens of others.

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I doubt you are the point of reference in every statistic/conclusion that i am trying to draw here so i am really not interested in how you started n what not .. By that logic BMTV,BitME and TT etc were all open signups when they started but are they now?

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Besides, how can public giveaways be a gateway if everyone wants "ratio proofs" from established trackers (and expect them to show massive buffers which "normal" people don't create), and expect them to show speedtests with upload rates far above what a normal home connection is (in most parts of the world)? Surely those requirements favour the tiny majority who rent servers and already have access to plenty of trackers?

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Again useless comment .. I have personally got invites based on just my home speed connection which was 512 kbps at that time .. Its just that my machine was on 24/7 so i could seed the entire time .. No one at that time wanted me to show them speed tests for Mbps lines .. So as i said earlier speedtests dont matter (re read my first post slowly this time so that you can find out where exactly i said this) ..

Look i mean no offense to you or anything .. All i want to say is that Public GA are requried .. Everyone needs a starting place and this is it .. Just to give you an example someof ppl who are currently staffing at various sites got their first invites here in public giveaways ..

Apart from that no matter what happens you can never build up trust on the internet .. So the whole Idea of inviting users you trust seems bullshit to me .

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Originally Posted by apextwin146

Then please suggest a easier way of handing out invites ? Again you are suggesting that you should not invite just anyone but only the ppl you knw ..
Since you have given an account of your story let me give you an example .. None of the friends (or friends friends etc) even knw what uTorrent is .. Now i have some invites which are simply lying there without being put into use .. So in your opinion i should just keep them there for stats sake right? Cuz god forbid if i give to some needy user that has put up a request for it .. I am breaking a bt commandment ..

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I can see your point, but I don't think that just because you have invites to a tracker you have to use them. I also reckon there's a mild difference between answering a request and making a GA offer. It depends why you do it, kinda seems to me like a lot of people offer invites expecting to gain something, if just friends and reputation through it. This is especially relevant for invites to sites that don't really need new users, or will only benefit from genuinely good new users rather than just people to increase activity.

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Originally Posted by apextwin146

No there arnt hundreds of thousands of BT users in these pvt trackers .. Most of them have a user limit and i guess you are aware of it .. I havent personally visited any other forum but i can tell you this that a lot of new folks that want to get into trackers do it the Pvt Invite forum way and we all knw what happens there ..
To your other point .. I want to join a tracker that specializes in Ipod format Releases.. Now its not a L33t site (its not any level or watever too) .. It dsnt have open signups nor any IRC interview .. Now what do u expect me to do?
Same is the case with many sites that provide some niche content but wait according to your logic those are all l33t sites ..

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Oh yes there are. :p I was meaning across all private sites, not on any individual one. Its impossible to calculate how many due to numerous people using multiple trackers, but there's an awful lot of people using "private" torrents. Many times more than have ever registered at a private invite forum. Imo.

Ok, well again, I don't really have an issue with you making a request for one, ideally on another tracker with a forum section for it. If you make a good case, have been on that site a good amount of time, haven't made numerous requests before and have a decent amount of activity there, and seem like a decent fellow, I might even pm you myself if I could help.

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Originally Posted by apextwin146

Look i mean no offense to you or anything .. All i want to say is that Public GA are requried .. Everyone needs a starting place and this is it .. Just to give you an example someof ppl who are currently staffing at various sites got their first invites here in public giveaways ..

Apart from that no matter what happens you can never build up trust on the internet .. So the whole Idea of inviting users you trust seems bullshit to me .

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I guess we misunderstood each other somewhat. My initial point was that spitting invites out like confetti simply on the basis of screenshots and speed tests, and then expecting quality results, is a bit deluded. There are other ways to give yourself a better chance of finding people to invite places who might be good users if that's what you care about, which the OP in the thread obviously did.

The thing is that it was a tad simpler when all this started out .. The invites were always limited but the number of New users joining wasnt this large .. A lot of patterns and mechanisms(so to say) have been constructed/evolved due to this ..
Mostly people give away so much on FST/Any other forum is just so that they can be noticed .. Once noticed they have a chance to get into the next level of the BT hierarchy ,so on so forth. Though everyone thinks that no user should give out invites like confetti ;but they do see the other persons Rep before inviting him to the next level or watever themselves. Somehow Rep translates into trust over the internet which is where this flaw starts .. Once ppl start seeing examples of other ppl getin into Higher level sites due to their Rep they start emaulating the same behavious and this is how we are at this stage now .. anyways its a pattern that has been set since some time and i doubt we would ever be able to change anything .

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Originally Posted by apextwin146

The thing is that it was a tad simpler when all this started out .. The invites were always limited but the number of New users joining wasnt this large .. A lot of patterns and mechanisms(so to say) have been constructed/evolved due to this ..
Mostly people give away so much on FST/Any other forum is just so that they can be noticed .. Once noticed they have a chance to get into the next level of the BT hierarchy ,so on so forth. Though everyone thinks that no user should give out invites like confetti ;but they do see the other persons Rep before inviting him to the next level or watever themselves. Somehow Rep translates into trust over the internet which is where this flaw starts .. Once ppl start seeing examples of other ppl getin into Higher level sites due to their Rep they start emaulating the same behavious and this is how we are at this stage now .. anyways its a pattern that has been set since some time and i doubt we would ever be able to change anything .

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Very true. Most invite fora is in this sad state. Well, think about it, might this be the reason why such fora exist? :blink:

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Originally Posted by MadIrish

Why anyone who cares about any site would invite random people simply on the basis of a couple of ratio proofs and a speedtest has always been beyond me.

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in the hope of being noticed and look like an altruistic person.
they're absolutely convinced that it's a passport to "higher heavens".

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they're absolutely convinced that it's a passport to "higher heavens".

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Why can't it be that they're just nice people want to help other people

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Originally Posted by AdrianPhoto

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they're absolutely convinced that it's a passport to "higher heavens".

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Why can't it be that they're just nice people want to help other people

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it's just obvious that they aren't. although they hand out hundreds of invites, they wouldn't invite random bt users to their l33t sites; most of them are more selective and sheming than you might think.