Usenet safety

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10-29-2011, 11:38 PM
zootman

Usenet safety

I've trawled the interwebs for an answer to this but there never seems to be a 'yes or no' answer....here's hoping you can help,

So i've been torrenting for a good few years now and think it's time to turn to Usenet (lol this is partly owing to the sense of trepidation I get whenever TorrentFreak is loading - it's all bad news!).

Anyway, I wanted to know the difference between an uploaders safety and downloaders safety (I'll be downloading FAR more than I upload - if I upload anything at all, that is).

It always seems that whenever I get close to an answer from viewing forum posts, someone always comes in at the last minute contradicting what's been previously said. I could really do with a bit of clarity on this one.

Thanks in advance, zootman
10-30-2011, 12:38 AM
sandman_1

Re: Usenet safety

Quote:

Originally Posted by zootman

I've trawled the interwebs for an answer to this but there never seems to be a 'yes or no' answer....here's hoping you can help,

So i've been torrenting for a good few years now and think it's time to turn to Usenet (lol this is partly owing to the sense of trepidation I get whenever TorrentFreak is loading - it's all bad news!).

Anyway, I wanted to know the difference between an uploaders safety and downloaders safety (I'll be downloading FAR more than I upload - if I upload anything at all, that is).

It always seems that whenever I get close to an answer from viewing forum posts, someone always comes in at the last minute contradicting what's been previously said. I could really do with a bit of clarity on this one.

Thanks in advance, zootman

Torrents you download/upload at the same time. The uploading of content is where they get ya. When you are just downloading, you probably won't get burnt and if they did they could only get ya for that one count so it is not worth it from their point of view. Adding to that the fact that it would be near impossible to find out what you are doing without someone snooping/spying on your connection to begin with if you just download. Yea your ISP can know but they aren't going to spend the time, money, and resources watching every subscriber on their network. And even if they did, you could always hide what you are downloading with SSL, which nearly every Usenet provider offers.

Most Usenet providers don't keep records of downloads. They do for uploads though for spam purposes but there are ways to upload anonymously.
10-30-2011, 01:14 AM
cola

Re: Usenet safety

You can download to your hearts content worry free, no records will be kept of that. The amount of space for the logs would be too much.

From what I see other people posting around here saying is that sometimes usenet accounts will get closed for getting too many DMCA complaints on their uploads, so the provider will disable posting or close the account (depending on the provider). I use an NL usenet provider for my posting, they don't seem to care about dmca complaints.
10-30-2011, 01:18 AM
JustDOSE

Re: Usenet safety

I'll make this as easy to understand as possible. I know coming from p2p your brain is kinda mushy right now.

:fst:Usenet:fst: has SSL, ~~p2p~~ (:sick:aka noob-land:sick:) doesn't

:yup:Nuff said:yup:
10-30-2011, 01:32 AM
cola

Re: Usenet safety

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustDOSE

I'll make this as easy to understand as possible. I know coming from p2p your brain is kinda mushy right now.

:fst:Usenet:fst: has SSL, ~~p2p~~ (:sick:aka noob-land:sick:) doesn't

:yup:Nuff said:yup:

:happy:
10-30-2011, 06:54 AM
zot

Re: Usenet safety

Quote:

Originally Posted by zootman

So i've been torrenting for a good few years now and think it's time to turn to Usenet
...
Anyway, I wanted to know the difference between an uploaders safety and downloaders safety (I'll be downloading FAR more than I upload - if I upload anything at all, that is).

I assume that the question is specifically about about uploading (posting) files on Usenet (not about Bittorrent seeding) .....

All usenet providers can trace posts back to the poster (potentially forever) using their message ID logs, so posting is definitely not anonymous. But for whatever reasons, usenet posters have not *YET* been targeted by the copyright cops. That situation could easily change.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustDOSE

Usenet has SSL, p2p doesn't

There are many P2Ps that use SSL or other encryption protocol, which anyway only prevents packet sniffing by 3rd parties but does not make a user anonymous in the least. To provide true anonymity requires hiding a person's actual IP address, a function completely unrelated to SSL encryption.
10-30-2011, 11:25 AM
jgjd2001

Re: Usenet safety

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustDOSE

I'll make this as easy to understand as possible. I know coming from p2p your brain is kinda mushy right now.

:fst:Usenet:fst: has SSL, ~~p2p~~ (:sick:aka noob-land:sick:) doesn't

:yup:Nuff said:yup:

now thats what im talking about :D
heck usenet also got VPN (depending on your usenet provider)
10-30-2011, 11:51 AM
JustDOSE

Re: Usenet safety

Quote:

Originally Posted by jgjd2001

now thats what im talking about :D
heck usenet also got VPN (depending on your usenet provider)

yar, and most of the time the files are named xdv29r3e3r.r01
unlike p2p where all the files are obviously named 'IF_YOUR_LOOKING_ITS_SO_OBVIOUS_IM_STEALING_SOMETHING.DVDrip.AXXO.XVID.2013.avi'

Quote:

Originally Posted by zot

There are many P2Ps that use SSL or other encryption protocol, which anyway only prevents packet sniffing by 3rd parties but does not make a user anonymous in the least. To provide true anonymity requires hiding a person's actual IP address, a function completely unrelated to SSL encryption.

im sure you can find all your releases on that private network with full download speeds, NOT;

and usenet users normally dont need more then SSL
because we arent calling attention to ourselves by uploading massive amounts of data
:ermm:
10-30-2011, 12:54 PM
Hypatia

Re: Usenet safety

Quote:

heck usenet also got VPN (depending on your usenet provider)

he would be a fool to use VPN service from these usenet providers like giganews. especially for p2p downloading\uploading
we already discussed that and learned how they serve and protect copyright international mafia ring
If you want VPn then choose among those preferably based in Sweden that dont do that kind of shite
10-30-2011, 02:02 PM
sandman_1

Re: Usenet safety

Moral of story: wanna get caught eventually, use P2P. Wanna download to your hearts content in safety, use Usenet. I wouldn't even use DDL because the baddies could bait you into downloading something and log your IP address.
10-30-2011, 02:35 PM
KFlint

Re: Usenet safety

Quote:

Originally Posted by sandman_1

Moral of story: wanna get caught eventually, use P2P. Wanna download to your hearts content in safety, use Usenet. I wouldn't even use DDL because the baddies could bait you into downloading something and log your IP address.

How? Do the file uploader on a DDL site know who snatched a file? Unless it's possible I don't believe it's a risk at all on known sites...
10-30-2011, 04:43 PM
anon

Re: Usenet safety

Quote:

Originally Posted by zot

There are many P2Ps that use SSL or other encryption protocol, which anyway only prevents packet sniffing by 3rd parties but does not make a user anonymous in the least. To provide true anonymity requires hiding a person's actual IP address, a function completely unrelated to SSL encryption.

Spot on as usual.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KFlint

How? Do the file uploader on a DDL site know who snatched a file? Unless it's possible I don't believe it's a risk at all on known sites...

I have yet to hear about a file hoster that lets uploaders see the IPs of who downloaded their files. That doesn't mean the site itself wouldn't keep logs, which could be requested by law enforcement in extreme cases, but with that outlook there's no truly safe method of downloading stuff.
10-30-2011, 09:26 PM
sandman_1

Re: Usenet safety

Quote:

Originally Posted by KFlint

How? Do the file uploader on a DDL site know who snatched a file? Unless it's possible I don't believe it's a risk at all on known sites...

It would be infinitely easier going after the DDL provider who's subscriber is responsible for the infringing material. Everything is centralized to one location: 1 account and 1 provider. With Usenet, it is decentralized. The content is mirrored on several providers.
10-30-2011, 11:42 PM
zootman

Re: Usenet safety

Cheers fellas this has been a big help.

So if packet sniffing/inspection is prevented by SSL, and anonymity is provided by a VPN - are there any VPN services you guys would recommend? Hypatia says one preferably based in Sweden; is there any particular VPN provider that people've had good experiences with?
10-31-2011, 01:21 AM
cola

Re: Usenet safety

Quote:

Originally Posted by zot

There are many P2Ps that use SSL or other encryption protocol, which anyway only prevents packet sniffing by 3rd parties but does not make a user anonymous in the least. To provide true anonymity requires hiding a person's actual IP address, a function completely unrelated to SSL encryption.

The actual p2p traffic isn't SSL. It's in RC4, which is weak but only meant to get around traffic shaping. Although some trackers have SSL on their website.

Quote:

Originally Posted by anon

I have yet to hear about a file hoster that lets uploaders see the IPs of who downloaded their files. That doesn't mean the site itself wouldn't keep logs, which could be requested by law enforcement in extreme cases, but with that outlook there's no truly safe method of downloading stuff.

I'd be more worried that the DDL site was set up as a honeypot instead of worrying that they'd be forced to turn over logs. Especially when you see files being hosted at new or lesser known DDL sites.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zootman

So if packet sniffing/inspection is prevented by SSL, and anonymity is provided by a VPN - are there any VPN services you guys would recommend? Hypatia says one preferably based in Sweden; is there any particular VPN provider that people've had good experiences with?

I wouldn't bother with a VPN if you only plan on using usenet. If you're wanting to p2p over VPN, go ahead, but for usenet alone its complete overkill, and not worth the money.
10-31-2011, 03:29 AM
maddphaxr

Re: Usenet safety

Never got a DMCA with newgroups.
10-31-2011, 05:33 AM
zot

Re: Usenet safety

Quote:

Originally Posted by zootman

So if packet sniffing/inspection is prevented by SSL, and anonymity is provided by a VPN - are there any VPN services you guys would recommend? Hypatia says one preferably based in Sweden; is there any particular VPN provider that people've had good experiences with?

This explains some of the differences between a few popular VPNs; basically, some VPNs keep logs and others do not:

Code:

http://torrentfreak.com/which-vpn-providers-really-take-anonymity-seriously-111007/
10-31-2011, 03:04 PM
JustDOSE

Re: Usenet safety

Quote:

Originally Posted by KFlint

Quote:

Originally Posted by sandman_1

Moral of story: wanna get caught eventually, use P2P. Wanna download to your hearts content in safety, use Usenet. I wouldn't even use DDL because the baddies could bait you into downloading something and log your IP address.

How? Do the file uploader on a DDL site know who snatched a file? Unless it's possible I don't believe it's a risk at all on known sites...

how, virii, thats how they will know. once you install a freshly made virii that norton((or w/e)how do you think Norton gets those virus on there list? someone had to have installed it) doesnt stop

how do we know that certain mushrooms will kill?? someone sometime was hungry enough and ate one..... LOL /dead X.X
10-31-2011, 04:28 PM
mjmacky

Re: Usenet safety

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustDOSE

Quote:

Originally Posted by KFlint

How? Do the file uploader on a DDL site know who snatched a file? Unless it's possible I don't believe it's a risk at all on known sites...

how, virii, thats how they will know. once you install a freshly made virii that norton((or w/e)how do you think Norton gets those virus on there list? someone had to have installed it) doesnt stop

how do we know that certain mushrooms will kill?? someone sometime was hungry enough and ate one..... LOL /dead X.X

That's assuming the upload is a virus, but the whole analogy seems to have lost footing. We are assuming we're competent enough to avoid grabbing unknown executables.
11-01-2011, 07:07 AM
zot

Re: Usenet safety

Regarding the possibility of a download "honeypot" -- we should keep in mind that in most countries (strictly) downloading copyrighted material is itself not illegal. It seems most baited traps deal in child porn, and anyone who dares to download it can expect a 4 AM swat-team raid.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustDOSE

how do we know that certain mushrooms will kill?? someone sometime was hungry enough and ate one..... LOL /dead X.X

Mass spectrometry would be another way of determining toxicity levels.