Palestine Or Israel?

[kAb]

Well now.

Israel is offering to pull out of palestinian controlled areas and eliminate border controls...


i hope this works..

[Zinedene_69]

Hi,

Just thought I may aswell join in..
The only way to stop the fighting is to stop the US's military support for Israel.
The israelis are killing everyday. Children and Women.
You only see what they allow you to see. Ive lived their, and filmed it, and its not nice...

Only a few weeks ago, an American girl died trying to protect an arab doctors house from being demolished.
The bulldozer stood infront of her for 20mins, then just crushed her to death.....may her soul rest in Peace.
Her name was Rachel Corrie.

NOW< at present, their are certain areas that if you are a westerner you have to sign a document from Israelis that says you are their and you are aware you are at risk of getting shot. Basically the document says if you die or get shot their, its your own fault for being their&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;



They are still doing it, even as we speak. The media news what u see is fabrication...most of palestinians dont even accept abu mazen.
Sharon is a terrorist. He was sacked many years ago for being to violent....and guess what...hes the leader of them now&#33;


Their soldiers kill WOMEN,CHILDREN, AND THE ELDERLY.
i HAVE FOOTAGE OF THEM DOING IT.

They have now knocked more houses down and have built an INTEL chip plant on occupied land, a court case which is still going on. Same with Coke, and many others ( i can provide all evidence, and links for all those that are interested)

They now are going to own the water supply, and have disected Palestine where it cannot become a state...
Israelis will have more water than palestinians, even though the palestinians are more in population.


People may call the suicide bombers terrorist, which they are, but so are the Zionists.
If the Israelis are killing with F-16&#39;s, Helicopters, Grenade Launcers, Bullets which are banned all over the world, shaking people as part of regular &#39;interogatin&#39;&#39; of suspects, then they have to expect resistence.
The people they are fighting have nothing, all their wealth, status has been robbed from them.

Then we can go onto Israeli NUCLEAR CAPABILITY, a dangerous game they are playing..


Saddest thing is, many are brainwashed into thinking Sharon is doing good, &#39;pulling back&#39;, its all part of the plans they have..
we have not forgot saabre and shatila.......
If anyone looks into my folder, you will see live footage, of Israelis kicking 5year old kids in the face, breaking peoples arms in the desert with stones, actually slicing off someones foot. and I have 1000&#39;s more....


We can blame palestinians for doing suicide bombings, but you have to go a stage further than that...and ask the question WHY?
When kids are seeing their houses getting knocked down and replaced with Israeli houses, they are then brought up in refuee camps with a certain hatred for the occupying force....

When it is commonplace to &#39;round -up&#39; over 3000 people including young boys form the age of 4years old, to elderly men up to 85, then you know their is something wrong...
When it is common for palestinian women having to give birth at check points because they are not allowed further access to hospitals. Many of these kids and mothers die, because of no assistence during the birth...
Whilst Israeli soldiers just sit their, and dont even offer a towel or water...
You may think I making it up, but if you went their, you would find a whole different world to whzt we see in TV.


Dont let the media trick you....
CNN, Sky news, dont forget, your only allowed to see what they WANT you to see. thats fact...



I know this is off the subject, but about September 11th, it was a tradegy definatley, and may all those that died rest in peace.
I was in Pakistan months before the bombing, and we already knew that the US was going to attack Afghanistan by October-Novermber time. It was even in the papers in Karachi...
We were told by an American official to get ready for a big US presence in that side of the world from October onwards...to fight in Afghanistan.....
In JULY, US paid Millions of Dollars to the taleban, known as &#39;Aid&#39;. Taleban didnt accept the US offer for the oil pipeline contract in Afghanistan, and handed the contract to a competing Argetinian company. Within the next few months, trade centre went down, the US forces were in their, and guess what, they got the pipeline in the end.

DONT FORGET, IF THEY WERENT OCCUPYING, THEIR WOULDNT BE A PROBLEM&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;
ITS THAT SIMPLE
the suicide bombings are a RESULT of occupation. They have no guns, f-16&#39;s, and army uniforms to fight the oppressors.
Thats why Israel done what it did, when Palestine was trying to become a state many years ago...
I mean, Israel on creation, was accepted within HOURS of its creation by the US. Within Hours...one phonecall, and their now &#39;recognised&#39;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;

Well, I hope I havent offended anyone, and if so, my humblest apologies...
Hopefully, one day, we can all live in peace, regardless of religion and race....
If anyone wants anymore info, I can supply, and 1000&#39;s of video footage which is simply not on the net now.

The question is not about religion, but about basic morality.

Because of Israel, we now know that the worlds LARGEST refugee number is that of Palestinians.
MAny who under the UN laws , are meant to be able to go back home, but Israel is not allowing them to go to their own homes..

Sometimes, we have to actually be present in an area to really know whats is going on. When I see what is on the TV, and then I know what I saw, makes me sick...so much for democracy in the West. More like brainwashing and fabrication.

Only way to imagine the problem is imagining where you live, are attacked by a neighbouring country...
They take your land, plantations, olive trees, and resources...
They take your house, even though you have documentation for ownership of property. They put you into a refugee camp, and you have to watch a stranger living in your own house...
You cant go to the shops, it takes over 5hours to do a normal 30minute journey.



Peace,

Zinedene

*****boycott INTEL******

[j2k4]

Of all the instances of aggression/discrimination against Palestinians, why are those perpetrated by Israel the only ones ever mentioned? Almost every country in the mid-east has a history of pushing the Palestinians around, and shuffling refugees from place to place-in 1991, immediately post Gulf-War, Kuwait expelled 300,000 Palestinians (who had lived there for years) simply because Arafat supported Hussein during the war. I don&#39;t recall hearing about THAT from the media, the U.N., or anyone else.

Fact: Where the media is concerned, the unfortunate plight of the Palestinians serves as nothing more than a "club" with which to hammer Israel.

The Palestinians suffer the ignominy, however ironic, of being even more "friendless" than Israel.

[ClubDiggler]

If I was to take sides, I would also go for the underdog like someone said.
The solution is of course not simple and ir requires a huge compromise on both
sides. I really don&#39;t think they can resolve it on their own specially when both sides
are influenced by religion.

I think the world leaders should put their heads together and start a process of figuring out a fair way to divide the territory keeping in mind both sides interests and history. Hopefully a decision will be reached possibly after a long time of debate. (Kind of like a trial).

Once that decision is reached and a division is achieved; it should be enforced by the international comunity.

If that doesn&#39;t work....well...I think someone suggested nuking the place....I give up&#33;

By the way; I like the "U.S international awareness exchange program" and Las Vegas is a
great place to start&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33; B)

[ShockAndAwe^i^]

All this talk of going for the underdog is ridiculous.

Look..The palistinians were offered a state way back when Israel was created.
Side By Side.
They refused, to put it lightly and swore they would drive the "Zionist Pigs" into the sea.
They&#39;ve had several recent chances as well to attain there own state and everytime when they got close they launched new waves of terrorism against Israel and the US.
Yup ..It&#39;s really the same war.
They want the complete destruction of Israel, and the USA for it&#39;s support of the "zionist Pigs".
One more thing..
When you say "I&#39;m for the underdog" what your really saying is that your very very uninformed on the matter.

[j2k4]

Originally posted by ShockAndAwe^i^@3 June 2003 - 23:08
All this talk of going for the underdog is ridiculous.

Look..The palistinians were offered a state way back when Israel was created.
Side By Side.
They refused, to put it lightly and swore they would drive the "Zionist Pigs" into the sea.
They&#39;ve had several recent chances as well to attain there own state and everytime when they got close they launched new waves of terrorism against Israel and the US.
Yup ..It&#39;s really the same war.
They want the complete destruction of Israel, and the USA for it&#39;s support of the "zionist Pigs".
One more thing..
When you say "I&#39;m for the underdog" what your really saying is that your very very uninformed on the matter.

This point needs to be honed a bit.

The threat of extermination has hung over Israel since day one, and has never been renounced.

It is only the alliance with the U.S. that has enabled Israel to survive.

Here is the bookend to THAT circumstance:

Islam&#39;s interests in the U.S. are represented and promoted by many groups, the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) chief amongst them.

Amid a recent statement of their goals, this tidbit:

The elimination of references to"Judeo-Christian" when describing the heritage of the United States; CAIR will push instead for "Judeo-Christian-Islamic" or "Abrahamic", which phrase to be used "in all venues where we normally talk about Judeo-Christian values, starting with the media, academia, statements by politicians, and comments made in churches, synagogues, and other places."

Note there is no mention here of "Mosques"; in Mosques, the reference is to remain "Islam(ic)" only, no inclusion of "Judeo-Christian".

CAIR Chairman Omar M. Ahmad, in a speech to a group of California Muslims in July, 1998, said "Islam isn&#39;t in America to be equal to any other faith, but to become dominant. The Koran should be the highest authority in America, and Islam the only accepted religion on earth."

This concerns me.......

[ShockAndAwe^i^]

All the politically correct talk in the world can&#39;t hide true Islam.
It&#39;s evil&#33;&#33;
I hear a lot of people(on TV and in Newspapers) who know absolutely nothing about this religion say "it&#39;s just the radical fundamentalists are ruining this great and peaceful religion".
Bull Crap&#33;
It&#39;s Pure evil from it&#39;s inception,and what we have here is a cover up of sorts as not to offend people.
It&#39;s a bunch of crap.
When someone actually gets the Koran and reads it,They will find line after blasphemous line calling for the death of everyone that is not a Muslim.
It is chock full of this and ton&#39;s of other shocking subjects as well.
I think an excellent read is about it is,yup you guessed it "The Satanic Verses"by Salmon Rushdie.
To get back to the point you were making, The Islamic faith never had anything to do with this country and hopefully never will.
It&#39;s just another attempt to rewrite a more politically correct version of history.
This is a very scary thing,and is rampant throughout our schools(in the US)from kindergarten on up to the University level
The phrase Judeo Christian is anathema to many,not just these Islamists.
Without being to prejudice to my friends on the left,let me say; that it is the left in this country that wishes to rewrite history and remove all references to God and the Judeo Christian faith.
In fact the Judeo Christian faith is under attack throughout the world as never before seen.
Christians are fast becoming some of the most hated and despised people on earth.
There&#39;s money trails to be found behind some of this too&#33;
j2, it should concern you.

[Rat Faced]

Its NOT an evil religion.

The fanatics of ANY religion are as bad......I seem to recall burning crosses in the Southern States not so long ago.



The AIM of every religion is to be the only religion....thats why they have PREACHERS..to spread the religion.

The Christian Church sent thousands of people into the Americas, Africa, Far East to spread the Christian faith in the past ( and even now)

The Latter Day Saints send missionaries all over the world to spread the word of mormanism......



How is Islam any different?


The Ironic thing is Christianity has more in common with Muslims than it does with Jews......Islam recognises a guy called Jesus Christ as a prophet, even if they dont think he was the messiah, and so include his teachings as part of their religion. The Jewish faith doesnt.

The Old Testament ( which Christians share with the Jews) is not what Christianity is based upon.

[MagicNakor]

Originally posted by Rat Faced@4 June 2003 - 23:23
...The fanatics of ANY religion are as bad......I seem to recall burning crosses in the Southern States not so long ago...

The AIM of every religion is to be the only religion....thats why they have PREACHERS..to spread the religion...

And I always seem to recall the Crusades. Odd, that.

[ShockAndAwe^i^]

Yes but there are big differences between the two.
It&#39;s obligatory in nature to bring up the crusades.
And ridiculous to compare the Bible with the Koran.
The God of the Koran is completely different from the God of the Bible&#33;
I think you should read them before you make the usual kind of statements about it.
The Statement you make(rat face) about Christianity having more in common with Islam shows your total and complete ignorance on the subject.

Rat Face said
"The Ironic thing is Christianity has more in common with Muslims than it does with Jews......Islam recognises a guy called Jesus Christ as a prophet, even if they dont think he was the messiah, and so include his teachings as part of their religion. The Jewish faith doesnt".

Rat Faced said
"How is Islam any different"?
All I have to say is look at both cultures.
There couldn&#39;t be a bigger contrast&#33;
From the way they treat their WOMEN,to their Value system,their belief system,their laws(which btw you would find shocking)and on and on and on.
I really think you should read the Koran and see how different it is from the bible.
It&#39;s as different as night and day.
I think you&#39;ll be shocked&#33;
Oh god I think I&#39;ll puke if people start cutting and pasting quotes from the two books.
Please don&#39;t.

Just because Islam recognizes him don&#39;t mean squat.
Islam says he&#39;s a prophet but Christians say he&#39;s God Almighty in human flesh&#33;
Islam&#39;s messiah is Mohhammed, Christianity is Jesus, the Jews just believe the Messiah hasn&#39;t come just yet.
Christianity excepts the entire old testament(Jewish book and God)while rejecting the koran outright.
Really rat faced, I think you need to read at least one of the books first before you make outrageous statements like that.

These things like talking about the crusades is a weak and often used comparison.
What about today?
This is what I&#39;m talking about.
Radical Christian fundamentalists numbers are very few indeed.
What they do(blowing up abortion clinics and so on) is evil too&#33;&#33;
To compare the very small numbered and under finaced Chistian ?Fundamentalists to the BILLIONS of (hate filled for the west and jews)Muslims is ridiculous&#33;
How are they different right now?