Will the US or Israel attack Iran?

[Biggles]

P.S (Offtopic) - How long have you had that picture in your sig..? seems to be as long as I can remember

Rafi, that is Biggles. I have seen him on a Saturday night in Kilmarnock.

I resemble that remark. I hardly ever get guttered in Kilmarnock - the public transport from there is pish.

As to Iran I don't think an attack is likely or sensible. Iran is too big and too much of a lynchpin in the centre of the region. Also I think the Iranian people are less radical than their leaders but an attack would drive them into the arms of people like Ahmadinejad. Why make enemies of a people who yearn to move to more modern society? The nuclear genie is never going to go back into the bottle and attempts to prevent countries owning a full cycle are not going to work. Better Iran joins the nuclear club with full inspections than it does its own thing behind closed doors.

I can't see any immediate resolution to the Palestinian question because the Palestinians themselves can't see an agreed resolution.

[Mr JP Fugley]

There's a story that The Mossad were responsible for assasinating one of the scientists working on the Iranian nuclear programme. That was about a month ago.

If I say I'll accept that your story about this story is true without demanding a google, would you mind at all (at all).

Oh it is a true rumour, I couldn't possibly comment on whether there is any veracity in it.

The source is apparently Stratfor, a Texan private intelligence company. They claim the intelligence comes from well placed sources in Israel.

However the whole thing could be pish, you chose.

[SeK612]

Is there any particular reason why the Arabs have yet to get their act together in terms of a military force so they can have a real battle with Israel (as I understand it things kicked off from the moment the Jews were given land within the middle east after WWII and there was a joint effort by the Arabs but it didn't really amount to much)? - Not that a war would be good it just seems strange that Israel has nuclear bombs, planes, tanks and ships and the Arabs have rocks and unguided RPG's.

Is it just the support from America which has tipped the balance or the sanctions imposed by the West that keep the Arabs in check? I guess to a certain extent Jews are associate with wealth (so could have quickly raise the cash to defend themselves but still it's been many years now and the balance is still skewed)?

There is a big fuss about nuclear weapons so why don't the Arabs simply invest in conventional weapons instead (most countries in the West have large military forces so it would be harder to complain plus it seems the likes of Russia are more than willing to pass on equipment)?

[j2k4]

If I say I'll accept that your story about this story is true without demanding a google, would you mind at all (at all).

Oh it is a true rumour, I couldn't possibly comment on whether there is any veracity in it.

Perhaps Ava could be persuaded?

[Ava Estelle]

...a free-thinking intellectual colossus whose mental emanations are the stuff of light and air.

Stop it j2, you're making me blush, I've told you before to keep the gushings to PMs.

You, on the other hand, have opposed me on literally every point I've tried to make during our mutual history here, save a singular agreement about one Bill Gates, which fact, considering your anti-capitalist bent, I marvel over to this very day.

So I've opposed you ... as opposed to you having opposed me? Cute! Then you stick me with an anti-capitalist label, which is quite a laugh really as I've never, ever, said anything against capitalists or capitalism.

Now, I may be wrong on occasion, more-or-less depending on your political views, but I don't think anyone here would venture that I have been wrong as often as you would have them think.

I can't say I've actually kept count of the times you were 'wrong', opinions aside, but you do yourself no favours with your constant quoting of Fox News, which is always wrong, biased and with an unashamed right-wing agenda. As you rarely quote the middle ground it would be pointless arguing a middle ground agenda with you, hence the left-wing bias, as you see it.

You are certainly entitled to your opinions, but you should acknowledge you are aware that that is all they are, and to use them as cudgels is not an apt strategy for influencing others, which is, after all, why we do this, right?

I find this the most amusing part of all, as you suggest I actually claim my opinions are not opinions at all, but 'truth'. Do you add a rider to your posts pointing out they are only opinions?

So what was the point of this thread j2? Was it just a little whinge because you don't like opposing views? It seems to me that everything you accuse me of I could quite legitimately claim of you, as I'm sure you'd agree.

[tralalala]

Is there any particular reason why the Arabs have yet to get their act together in terms of a military force so they can have a real battle with Israel (as I understand it things kicked off from the moment the Jews were given land within the middle east after WWII and there was a joint effort by the Arabs but it didn't really amount to much)? - Not that a war would be good it just seems strange that Israel has nuclear bombs, planes, tanks and ships and the Arabs have rocks and unguided RPG's.

Is it just the support from America which has tipped the balance or the sanctions imposed by the West that keep the Arabs in check? I guess to a certain extent Jews are associate with wealth (so could have quickly raise the cash to defend themselves but still it's been many years now and the balance is still skewed)?

There is a big fuss about nuclear weapons so why don't the Arabs simply invest in conventional weapons instead (most countries in the West have large military forces so it would be harder to complain plus it seems the likes of Russia are more than willing to pass on equipment)?

Israel gets dosh from the US, just like the Palestinians get dosh from the Saudis or the Iranians. They seem to have huge amounts of Russian weapons (Hezbollah for instance), and they get training in countries like Iran. Why is it STILL skewed? Don't know.. Maybe because all of the wars were raised out of no real reason, thus motivation was in the pits.. That's probably the reason Israel won the Independence war of 1948 - How else could you explain some 200,000 Jews beating some ooohh.. about 5 million Arabs? I'm not even sure those are the right figures.. but what I do know is that there was a HUGE difference in the sizes of the forces.. So I would bank on motivation. The Jews wanted to win the war more than the Egyptians, Syrians, Lebanese and Jordanians. That's probably it. From that point onward, each and every war was started as a result of the loss of the previous war. Lost honor.. You pick.

[Ava Estelle]

From that point onward, each and every war was started as a result of the loss of the previous war.

Israel started the 1967 war, not their neighbours.

[SeK612]

It just feels unbalanced I guess. Perhaps that is the medias doing but the news here in Europe shows the Palestinians scrabbling around on one side throwing rocks at tanks and launching sporadic suicide bombings and the Israeli's on the other side retaliating with fighter jets and helicopters.

I guess I'm just curious as to why Israel is so powerful and why the Arabs haven't teamed up together and generally invested in better defenses and weaponry given that most clearly feel that they are in some kind of war (as America helps Israel so readily a backing of the Palestinians from the other Arab nations would be hard to complain about).

As I understand it most of the Arab nations have little or no aircraft or tanks (Saudi Arabia has some F14's and they and Oman are seeking orders for military aircraft from Europe but it's still nothing compare to other nations). A change would probably cause Israel to pause when considering strikes against the Palestinians and stop the US from wading into the middle east (I guess things may have been approached differently in actions such as the Iraq war if Iraq were well defended).

[bigboab]

I don't think either side will ever agree on this conflict.

As I understand it, the Arabs were promised all this land (By someone tangible) if they fought and hunted the Turks out of that part of the Ottoman Empire. The Arab leaders did that but the promise was reneged. Lawrence who made the promise to the Arabs on behalf of the British Government was furious when the promise was not carried out. He was about to expose the reasons why the promise was reneged on when he was mysteriously 'killed' in a motorcycle accident.

So in a sense it is the promised land of the Arabs. It all depends on what parts of history you wish to ignore.

[tralalala]

From that point onward, each and every war was started as a result of the loss of the previous war.

Israel started the 1967 war, not their neighbours.

Did you actually bother to check why Israel struck first?

Nasser, Egypts PM at the time, kept threatening Israel, and was quoted "If Israel wants war, then Ahalan Wa-Sahalan" (which means let's go for it then).

On top of this, the Egyptian troops were getting ever closer to the Sini border with Israel, Syria were moving their forces down the Golan Heights, and the Jodanian soldier in Jerusalem were getting ready for a strike. So, Israel decided to hit first before getting crushed by all 3 armies. Israel took out the Egyptian air-force, the Syrian troops, and the Jordanians, pushed all 3 armies miles out, and that is the reason Israel entered the "occupied territories". Because Israel had no choice.

Once again, the Arab armies were not ready to fight together, and thus got a taste of their own medicine, and were hit hard. It served them right, there was no reason for a war, so Israel did what it needed to do and finished them off in 6 days.


Off-topic - I keep asking my dad what's so special about 1967 (for a laugh), and he always tells me that's the year Celtic won the European cup