Refugee Problem

**Neil__** · 07-10-2003, 03:41 PM

Do you think that it would be better for europe of other than than individual countries trying to find loopholes in the existing conventions and therby put at risk other countries policies
Or would Europe be better as a whole with a truely universal policy

Remember the problems Britain had with the songat (Unsure of spelling) refugee camp in france. which was deliberately placed in walking distance of the french goods depot that supplied the trains into the U.K.

A europe wide policy would stop this manipulation of one country over another

Please dont quote conventions. Have an opinion. It is your topic.

Neil

**thewizeard** · 07-10-2003, 04:14 PM

I thought I made my opinion clear at the begining? The convention is mentioned because that is the foundation.

**Neil__** · 07-10-2003, 04:22 PM

nigel123
so you wholeheartedly support the convention and you believe that it is perfect in every way. you understand it's implications throughout the eec and therfore have no differing opinion.
Every word is sacrosanct and there is no room for improvement.

At least answer your own question and have a view on that.

well if you are scared to answer a direct question. then I won't bother your post with more pointless speculation.

Neil

**thewizeard** · 07-10-2003, 04:50 PM

Originally posted by Neil__@10 July 2003 - 16:22
nigel123
so you wholeheartedly support the convention and you believe that it is perfect in every way. you understand it's implications throughout the eec and therfore have no differing opinion.
Every word is sacrosanct and there is no room for improvement.

At least answer your own question and have a view on that.

well if you are scared to answer a direct question. then I won't bother your post with more pointless speculation.

Neil

Neil, if you go back to my first post you will see my question at the end, "What do you think?"

I am not interested in my own opinion as I am aware of it. It's your opinion and others that I find more important.

In the Netherlands, my daily work is helping asylum seekers who have achieved a status; often after many years of legal wranglings, settle and integrate into soceity.

Sometimes I have to explain to them that they have to return to their own country, and I am often confronted with their fear and helplesness.

Many of "our" refugees who have to return have children, born in the Netherlands, going to school and only speaking the dutch language.

Is that fair?

**Rat Faced** · 07-10-2003, 04:59 PM

I think a number of DIFFERENT issues are being lumped together here.

A Refugee is a displaced person, and we should help as much as possible..remembering that their HOME is elswhere, and they should be repatriated as soon as possible. eg Kroations, Bosnians etc. The reason that they are refugee's was that they were facing Racial Cleansing, their homes etc were being destroyed. It was RIGHT that we took them in and helped. Its not right to keep them here indefinatly IN THAT STATUS...they should be re-patriated.

They could of course ask for ASYLUM.

Different rules, and again, people should NOT be forced to return to places where they are at risk of their lives for their political beliefs.

Either of these could ask for IMMIGRATION rights.

This means they want to be a part of the country that they are now in..again, fine..IF they then swear allegiance to the new country and become a citizen of that country.

I have nothing against ANYONE staying as long as they like in the UK, if they can finance it. If they want me to help finance it, then they should be in one of the above groups.

**Neil__** · 07-10-2003, 05:23 PM

nigel123

do you believe that refugees should find asylum in their own region?

Why are you so evasive?

Like I said and concidering your position
I think it even more important that you give some opinions
you have first hand experience that will make your position very interesting.
or is this just a personal data collection for some sort of thesis.

You have asked and we answered
Your turn
do YOU believe that refugees should find asylum in their own region?

Neil

**Ron** · 07-10-2003, 05:58 PM

For me, "here" is Belgium.
I don't mind political refugees, but lately we seem to get more and more 'economical' refuges here.
And our government, in their infinite wisdom, has decided that refugees can obtain the Belgian nationality without speaking the language, respecting the laws and/or customs, let alone have ANY intention to integrate.
Hell, we've got one who publicly declares he doesn't recognize our law!!!
A problem for a lot of people here is, that refugees have more rights than natives.
I pay a LOT of money on taxes and VAT every year, still, I don't have the same rights as someone who just came down here, and never paid a cent.
Doesn't seem right somehow.
When I get sick, I have to pay it out of my own pocket, or take some private (very expensive) health insurance.
When I go bankrupt, I'll have to start looking for a cardboard box and a bridge to sleep under.
I'll probably get hell for this, but most problems (99% I'd say) involves immigrants from Islamic countries.
We have absolutely no problem with Jews, Boeddhists or Hindous, so it's not that it's impossible to integrate in our society. Just a lack of will.

So my point of view on this is simple.
Immigrants who fled their country for fear of their life: fine for the duration of the threat.
'Economical' refugees are welcome, as long as they actually TRY to find a job. Any refusal to do so, orany criminal acts performe, and they should go back to where they came from. It can't be the idea to import social security abusers or criminals from other countries, can it?
Our social security system is collapsing as we speak, because it can no longer pay for all the people we're taking in.
And if does collapse, what good wil it do for anyone in the future?
Helping others is fine, as long as it's reasonable.
It's a bit like denying your children to go to the dentist, because you'd rather give the money to a charity fund. That's the fastest way to create racism, I think.

Just my 2 p.
Let the flaming begin.

**thewizeard** · 07-10-2003, 05:59 PM

Only if that's what they want themselves Neil. I am for freedom of choice.

You find me evasive? I try not to use complicated words. I also try to be concise. Once again I am more interested in other peoples opinion including yours. If I start a topic, I don't feel that I own it. It's open to all.
You talk of "we" I am not sure to whom you are refering. There have been a few opinions, but not many... yet.